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Have you ever heard of Tapping and thought that it's way too “out there” for you? Well, did you know there is actual science backing up this technique for stress management? My guest today shares so much useful info about it – what it is, how to use it for stress management, and much more!
Today's guest, Sarah Emily Speers, is an Alternative Healing Arts Practitioner, Empowered Eating Coach, Reiki Master & trained psychotherapist. She specializes in using energy healing modalities- including Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT), Reiki and the Emotion Code- to help empathic women and entrepreneurs experience freedom from food and eating issues, emotional overwhelm, stress/anxieties and limiting self-beliefs.
With over 10 years of experience in the mental health, coaching and fitness industries, Sarah Emily has worked with thousands of people to help them improve their health behaviors, mindset, body/self-image and self-care practices.
She formerly was the Director of the Behavioral Health Program at Premier Fitness Camp, developed and ran an intensive treatment program for binge eating disorder at the University of California San Diego, and worked in private practice as a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist in California. Sarah Emily holds an M.A. in Marriage & Family Therapy from The University of San Diego and a B.A. in Psychology from Syracuse University.
Join us as we delve into an introduction to the Emotional Freedom Technique to help manage stress!
Have you thought tapping or another stress reduction technique was silly, but then you ended up loving it? Tell me about it in the comments!
Or, listen on your favorite app: iTunes (Apple Podcasts) | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | Subscribe on Android
In this episode:
- What is Emotional Freedom Technique (also known as Tapping)?
- How does it work and why is it effective?
- Research backing up how well EFT works
- How can you use this tool to benefit you?
- Example of a basic tapping process/mantra to use
Quotes
“When you're tapping on these points in the body, it's actually sending a signal to your brain to let your brain and body know that you can relax. And there's even studies that show that tapping is going to reduce cortisol levels in the body.” [1:59]
“It's all about fully accepting all parts of you. And a lot of times we're fighting against these parts of ourselves, we're frustrated with ourself. We don't want to look at or deal with these things that bother us. And so, rather than us ignoring them or avoiding them, we fully bring everything into the light and we just acknowledge what is true…and when we can accept something that's there that we don't love, it's actually through the acceptance that we're more easily able to release it.” [12:30]
Links
Connect with Sarah Emily online
RESEARCH – Clinical EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques) Improves Multiple Physiological Markers of Health
Follow Sarah Emily on Instagram | Join her Facebook group
Get a free tapping training HERE
258: Tapping (aka Emotional Freedom Technique) For Eczema, Psoriasis + Other Rashes w/ Sarah Emily Speers, LMFT FULL TRANSCRIPT
Jennifer Fugo: Sarah, thank you so much for being here. I am super excited for our conversation today, which is kind of odd, because we're going to be talking about tapping, and I feel like it's a very grounded energy type practice, but I am excited, nonetheless, because I'm really interested to learn from you. So, thank you for being here.
Sarah Emily Speers: Oh, my pleasure. I'm really excited to be here and have this conversation.
Jennifer: So, we're going to be talking about something called tapping, which is also, am I correct in that it's also known as the Emotional Freedom Technique or is it a part of that?
Sarah: Emotional Freedom Technique is the technical name, also known as EFT, and then everyone shortens it and just calls it tapping because that's the motion and really what we're doing on the body.
Jennifer: So, you had described this to me before we started as it is a practice. I consider it similar to maybe a meditation, but not really because I feel like people struggle with meditation because they feel like they can't sit still, they can't quiet their brains. Why is EFT or tapping, why is that in the same category, but it's sort of its own thing that might be more accessible for some people?
Sarah: Yeah. Tapping is a self-help tool and like meditation, it has a number of benefits. Meditation is definitely one where you're sitting in stillness and tapping is one where you have a process that you do. So it's very much something that you do. And it's great for people who have a very active mind and tend to easily get stressed because I think it's one of the most powerful stress management tools. It is working to fuse cognitive processing with somatic work.
Sarah: So you're going to be tapping on acupressure points on the face and body connected to your energy meridian. And when you're tapping on these points in the body, it's actually sending a signal to your brain to let your brain and body know that you can relax. And there's even studies that show that tapping is going to reduce cortisol levels in the body.
Sarah: So we have physiological evidence that shows it's actually helping the body to go from a stress response to a relaxation response. And at the same time, while you're tapping, you're also helping yourself process everything you're thinking that's contributing to the emotions in your body that are contributing to your stress or discomfort. And so, you're able to also process the emotional energy and lessen the intensity of everything you're thinking and feeling that is causing you internal discomfort or stress.
Jennifer: And so, I do want to highlight this point because I think it's important. So for some people listening to this, they might be like, “This feels a little woo, woo. I've looked at it online, looks a little woo woo.” But you have a legit background in psychology, you're a therapist. You have a lot of training. How did you connect with this? How did you get here?
Sarah: I love this question because I will be the first person to admit I was the biggest skeptic when I first encountered tapping. So, any person who's like, “That's weird.” Yeah, I was there with you know. It seems silly and strange that tapping on your head and body while talking is going to help you feel better, until you experience it. And that's how I became a full believer because there's no denying noticing when your stress is 10 out of 10, and then you go through a few rounds of tapping and it's shifted to a six out of 10 or a four out of 10. You can measure that. And so, you know, “Well, something's happening because I feel better.” And that's ultimately what we're looking for. Maybe this doesn't work for everyone, some people will try it and not love it.
Sarah: Just like some people try meditation and don't love it. But for myself when I tried it and I felt my anxiety disappear and I felt way more relaxed, I was like, “Okay, there's something here and I'm going to learn it.” And when I started to get trained in tapping, I discovered that there's actually over a hundred clinical studies that have been done to show that tapping is an effective practice in self-help.
Jennifer: Wow.
Sarah: Yes, it is an evidence based practice, so it is not woo woo. This is now backed by science, brain scans, tons of studies showing it's supportive in reducing symptoms of anxiety, depression, PTSD, pain, weight. I mean there's a laundry list of applications. And so, it is not just something weird that people do. It's actually something scientific that people use as an effective process to help reduce stress. Yeah.
Jennifer: And that's actually, I think an important point to mention. That was what got me interested, essentially. I knew about tapping for a really long time and I too thought it was really woo woo. And then, I happened to stumble across some research on PubMed and I was like, “Huh? Really? That worked? Oh. Maybe I should look into this a little bit more.” And so, that was what peaked my interest about this initially. And I also wanted to share too, because before we started recording, you had had shared with me that you work with a lot of women who struggle with disordered eating and using this as one of the ways or modalities to support them. And as many of you who listen to this show know, there's a rampant problem in our community of dealing with eating disorders and disordered eating, food fear, all of that stuff that people don't even realize is happening to them in the moment.
Jennifer: And then, when you're confronted with maybe somebody like me saying, “No, we want to add food back in.” You're like, “But I thought this is bad for me. And what if my skin flares up? I think this might have caused it, but I don't know.” And you've whittled your diet down to something really small. So just know that as we're having this conversation today, this could also be a potential great avenue for you to test out and help yourself through the process of reintroducing foods and mending the fences, so to speak, with your relationship with food. So, how do you think… If somebody's coming to this for the first time, are there some basic things they need to know to get started? Are there rules or guidelines that you like to share with your clients?
Sarah: Yeah. There's a basic tapping formula. That's a good place to start. And so, that's sort of the foundation for anyone who's wanting to learn tapping. You're going to want to learn the basic formula, which I'm happy to give you the quick overview, the Spark notes version of the basic formula. And then, just practice that initially because that's like really the bread and butter. If you can learn that formula, you can plug in anything you're thinking, anything you're feeling, and go through the tapping process, anytime, any place, to help give yourself some relief or to shift the intensity of what you're experiencing; whether it's stress, whether it's an emotion, whether it's a limiting belief, like a fear thought about food, right? You can substitute anything you were thinking and feeling into this basic formula.
Jennifer: Yeah. And also too, I want to share with everybody, we are going to have a YouTube version of this. So, obviously if you're just listening to the audio version or the audio podcast, you might… It's possible some of the tapping directions might be a little confusing. And if you're like me, I like to see, know that we will have a YouTube video. And then also Sarah has some great resources which we'll link in the show notes on her website, videos, tutorials, and that kind of stuff that you can go and check out and learn more from her. Especially if you're the, “I need to see this in action.”
Sarah: Right. If you're a visual learner, you're going to want to go find the videos.
Jennifer: Yes. Yeah. We're holding space for you as well. All right. So what are some of these guidelines? What's the Cliff notes or Spark notes or whatever that we need to know to get started?
Sarah: Yeah. So to get started, you're going to want to just tune into yourself and notice what it is that you're experiencing and the intensity of it. So let's just use stress as an example, right? We could have any person right now tune into how stressed they feel in this moment and give it a rating on a scale of zero to 10. And then you tune into why you're feeling stressed?And usually there's a number of thoughts, there's reasons. Right? And so, when you can identify what you're feeling and what you're thinking, that's connected to that feeling, and give those ratings of how big or intense that feels in your body and tune into some of the physical sensations, right? Like where do you feel the stress? Are there knots in your stomach? Tightness in your chest? Because that's going to give you information about where the energy of this emotion is actually stored in the body.
Sarah: And you might actually notice some of those physical sensations start to move or subside or even sometimes grow as you're tapping. And so, that's kind of your baseline. You want to just start with understanding, yeah, what am I experiencing and feeling and thinking? And where do I feel this in my body and how big is it? And once you have your sort of initial rating, then we're going to plug that into the tapping formula. And so, there's two parts to the tapping formula. There's the setup statement. And the setup statement is where we state out loud exactly what you just identified.
Sarah: You say it out loud while we're tapping on the side of the hand. And we say that three times, and then you're going to go through what's called the reminder phrase. And then, when you say the reminder phrase, you're going to be tapping gently on different points on the face and body while just saying a brief statement about what it is you're experiencing. And that's basically like giving your brain something to focus on, so it knows what it's processing and clearing. Because if you start tapping and you're thinking about all the errands you have to do and what you're going to cook for dinner, then your brain is no longer focused on processing the emotion and thought that you identified. So the reminder phrase is just keeping your brain on track with what it's trying to clear.
Jennifer: Okay. All right. So these are good ground rules to know. I'll be honest, I did not realize that there were ground rules, because I've really just seen those reels, those 60 second little videos on Instagram or TikTok. And I was like, “Oh, that's what you do. You do this little thing for like two minutes.” That's what I thought there was because again, I didn't know. So you are educating me as well.
Sarah: Yeah, that would be the condensed version of tapping and that can work, but sometimes that's not the most effective approach because actually the way that tapping is most effective is you want to start on tapping on the thing that's bothering you first, before you start to tap on the positive affirmations. If you fall and cut your knee and it's got dirt in it, we have to clean out the dirt before we put in the positive, so to speak. And so, to just put positive affirmations on top of how stressed you're feeling or overwhelmed or frustrated, doesn't actually help subside the intensity of that frustration. And so, we start with the thing that bothers you first and then we can start to reinforce, “I feel really safe and I feel happy and I feel confident.” But if there's a part of you that doesn't feel that way, we need to address that part of you first, before we go into the positive affirmations. Does that make sense?
Jennifer: It does. And I actually appreciate that because you're allowing yourself to hold space for the discomfort that you feel, so it's not like this kind of toxic positivity of just trying to like plaster over the negative emotions or experiences that you're feeling within your body. You're acknowledging it. You're holding space for it. But at the same time you can also kind of have this place where you shift toward. That's actually a really nice… That's really nice.
Sarah: Yes, exactly. You've nailed it. It's all about fully accepting all parts of you. And a lot of times we're fighting against these parts of ourselves, we're frustrated with ourself. We don't want to look at or deal with these things that bother us. And so, rather than us ignoring them or avoiding them, we fully bring everything into the light and we just acknowledge what is true. Like, yes, there's a part that is frustrated and stressed and that's okay. I do fully love and accept myself, even though this doesn't feel good. And when we can accept something that's there that we don't love, it's actually through the acceptance that we're more easily able to release it.
Jennifer: I love that. Okay. So, you want to do it seated, standing, laying down?
Sarah: You could do it standing, but typically seated is a good way to do it. This isn't something you're going to want to do driving because you do need both hands. So, you want to make sure that you're not-
Jennifer: Good point.
Sarah: … behind the wheel of a car.
Jennifer: Fair enough. Yeah. Because I always say breathing exercises, you could do a breathing exercise while you're at a stoplight, but not this. You need both hands.
Sarah: I have mastered tapping to the point that I can do it with one hand now while driving, but for anybody learning, I would not recommend that. You want to be seated. Yes.
Jennifer: Fair enough. So, does it matter which hand you use as the hand that taps?
Sarah: No. You can do what feels comfortable for you. Typically people tap with their dominant hand. So I'm a righty, so I'll use my right hand to do the tapping, but you can totally switch sides. If you were to Google tapping some tapping practitioners tap with both hands at the same time. I'm not that coordinated, so one hand is sufficient.
Jennifer: Okay. That's good to know. So, when you say the outside of the hand, when you tap initially, are we talking about the back of the palm, the pinky edge of the hand?
Sarah: Yes, the pinky edge.
Jennifer: Where are we tapping?
Sarah: Pinky edge. So we're going to start our set up statement on the pinky edge. So, you're just going to take your dominant hand and start gently tapping right on the side of the hand, underneath the pinky.
Jennifer: Okay. And are we using… I assume we're using more than one finger? Is that correct?
Sarah: Yeah, I'm using four fingers just gently on the side of the hand.
Jennifer: Okay.
Sarah: And so this is where we say the setup statement three times, and I'll take you guys through an example, but first I'll just show you the tapping points. And so, then when we say the reminder phrase, we're going to switch to just two fingers. And the reason we use two fingers is because it just covers more surface area on the skin and there's a total of nine tapping points. So we've got one right at the start of the eyebrow, one on the side of the eye.
Jennifer: Okay. That's sort of like center eyebrow area, side of the eye.
Sarah: Yeah. Side of the eye, which would be right on the eye socket. And then, we tap right under the eye. So again, on the eye socket, and then you tap under the nose above the lip.
Jennifer: Okay.
Sarah: You tap right on the chin below the lip. Yep. And then, the next-
Jennifer: I can see why we need to see this.
Sarah: Yeah.
Jennifer: This is a very visual thing. Okay. Keep going.
Sarah: Once you know the points though, you can listen to tapping audios, no problem.
Jennifer: Ah.
Sarah: And then the next point is on the chest. So, if you were to feel your collarbone underneath the collarbone, you can feel sort of two soft spots that indent in, and those are the tapping points. So I actually use my fingers and thumb on one hand to tap those. Exactly. Yep. And the next point is probably the most awkward to get to, which is on the rib cage underneath the armpit. So there's two ways we could access this. One, I call the monkey tap where you just lift your arm up and tap underneath. And the other one, you just reach across the body and tap under the arm.
Jennifer: Under the arm. Ugh, for someone with a frozen shoulder like me, this could-
Sarah: And for anyone who's trying to learn this, you can skip a point if it's painful. Right? So, if there's a point that you can't access or it hurts to try and tap, skip it. And then, the final point is right on the top of the head.
Jennifer: That's good.
Sarah: And this is our governing meridian.
Jennifer: The top of the head, okay.
Sarah: This is the last one.
Jennifer: And you're using… And for those listening, we're using just the palm of the hand, gently tapping.
Sarah: Yes. So it definitely looks silly and feel silly initially when you do it. You're like, “This is weird.” But when we put the whole thing together, typically it's incredible the amount of release and relaxation that you can experience when tapping.
Jennifer: Very cool.
Sarah: Shall we try a full tapping process?
Jennifer: Yes. I think we should. So, let's say… I'll just model something. For a lot of listeners, they're probably dealing with frustration that they're now experiencing a flare, and their skin… They're doing everything right. They're really frustrated, their skin's flaring up. They don't know. And now they're like, “Was it this thing that I ate? Was it this thing that I did? Maybe I got too sweaty. I didn't sleep enough.” Any number of things. You're going through this laundry list of ways in which you feel like you failed or your body's failing you and just feeling really frustrated and upset in that moment.
Sarah: Yes. Perfect. So we'll use that. So, I will just take you through a tapping round as if I was working with a client who told me that that's what they're experiencing. And so, any person who's experiencing that frustration right now, you can just tune into how big and intense does that frustration feel on a scale of zero to 10, just to get your starting point. And then we'll start tapping right on the side of the hand. And I'll actually invite you, Jennifer, to just repeat out loud after me. Okay?
Jennifer: Okay. Sounds good.
Sarah: Even though I feel really frustrated.
Jennifer: Even though I feel really frustrated.
Sarah: That I had another flare.
Jennifer: That I had another flare.
Sarah: I don't know what to do about it.
Jennifer: And I don't know what to do about it.
Sarah: I completely love and accept myself.
Jennifer: I completely love and accept myself.
Sarah: Even though I'm so frustrated.
Jennifer: Even though I'm so frustrated.
Sarah: That it's happened again.
Jennifer: That it's happened again.
Sarah: And my skin is flaring.
Jennifer: And my skin is flaring.
Sarah: I accept that I feel this way.
Jennifer: I accept that I feel this way.
Sarah: And I love and accept myself.
Jennifer: And I love and accept myself.
Sarah: I'm open to showing myself compassion.
Jennifer: I'm open to showing myself compassion.
Sarah: Even though there's a part of me that's still really frustrated my skin flared.
Jennifer: Even though there's a part of me that's really frustrated my skin flared.
Sarah: I still love and accept myself.
Jennifer: I still love and accept myself.
Sarah: It's okay that I feel this way.
Jennifer: It's okay that I feel this way.
Sarah: I honor my frustration.
Jennifer: I honor my frustration.
Sarah: It's safe to feel and let it go.
Jennifer: It's safe to feel and let it go.
Sarah: Good. Now, we're going to take those two fingers and tap right on the start of your eyebrow to say the reminder phrase. This frustration.
Jennifer: This frustration.
Sarah: Tapping on the side of the eye, all the frustration in my body.
Jennifer: All the frustration in my body.
Sarah: Tapping under the eye, all my frustration. It happened again.
Jennifer: All of my frustration.
Sarah: Tapping under the nose. My skin flared.
Jennifer: My skin flared.
Sarah: Tapping on the chin. So frustrated it happened.
Jennifer: So frustrated it happened.
Sarah: Don't understand why.
Jennifer: Don't understand why.
Sarah: Tapping on the chest. Frustration in my body.
Jennifer: Frustration in my body.
Sarah: Just letting it go.
Jennifer: Just letting it go.
Sarah: Tapping on the rib cage. Releasing it now.
Jennifer: Releasing it now.
Sarah: Choosing to feel more calm.
Jennifer: Choosing to feel more calm.
Sarah: Tapping on the top of the head. Choosing to feel more peace and ease in my body.
Jennifer: Choosing to feel more peace and ease in my body.
Sarah: Good. And then you stop tapping and just take a big breath; big inhale and exhale. And then, I always like to invite people to just close their eyes and imagine that the sun is just bright and warm, just showering through your body, helping to just rinse away some of that frustration. And you can imagine that you're just absorbing the warm sunlight in your body as you just breathe and receive a little bit more peace and relaxation and calm in your body and system.
Sarah: And then, you would tune in to notice, okay, how does my frustration feel in this moment? And you're welcome to open your eyes and come back and you tune in to see what came up for you when you did the tapping. And what's neat about Emotional Freedom Technique is once we start tapping, different emotions can emerge. That's why it's called Emotional Freedom Technique. So, you might be frustrated and all of a sudden feel like I just want to cry suddenly. Now I'm emotional about it because I've just been so frustrated, but really I'm just exhausted and sad that I'm still on this journey. Right? And so, it can start to change form and reveal some of the deeper emotions or pains that you've been holding onto. So, sometimes your experience when you're tapping is that the emotions will actually grow as you start to bring them to the surface.
Sarah: Other times you'll do tapping and it'll just feel the same. You'll feel a sense of neutral, right? I don't really even feel anything, it just feels neutral. And other times you'll actually feel a shift where you feel better. There's a sense of, “Oh, I do feel calmer. I feel more at peace. I feel more ease through my system.” And that was one round. So you would, depending on how big your emotion is or your frustration, you may be doing 10 rounds of tapping to start to shift the intensity of it. Right? It's going to vary depending on your experience in that moment.
Jennifer: Yeah, I will say the one thing I like about it is that I don't have to count breaths, I don't have to be worried… Especially if you're congested or you struggle with congestion, you don't have to worry about being able to breathe through your nose or any of that. And I also like, there's something very visceral because you're tapping, it forces me to pay attention in that spot rather to be stuck within the emotion, which I think is, sometimes it's hard. Like when you're angry, you're in anger. You're in the middle of this chaotic experience and it's hard to get out of it. Or, we have people who listen to the show where they end up incredibly itchy at night and they just can't seem to get out of it and it just gets worse and worse and worse and can't sleep, and it becomes extremely upsetting. And it's almost a way to be able to step out of that incredibly out of control situation-
Sarah: Loop in it.
Jennifer: … into that experience.
Sarah: Can actually just tap on it, to acknowledge it and physiologically, help the body to receive that signal that it's okay. Right? That it can relax or not get as agitated because we can definitely spiral in those emotions if we don't have tools to help us process them from the body. Yeah.
Jennifer: Yeah. And so, this is something that it could last, what, two minutes, or it could last 10 minutes or 20 minutes? Basically, as long as you feel that you need to utilize this tool in that particular moment.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. This is a case by case sort of tool, because like I said, it depends on the intensity. How big was your flare? How frustrated are you? Is it just a minor little moment of, “Ugh, I'm frustrated and annoyed, but it's not that big.” And so, usually there's different factors that are going to affect how long you're going to want to tap. When I work with clients, I mean, we'll usually tap for about 20 minutes, but sometimes I've done a full hour tapping session and sometimes it's taken me one round to feel better. So it does vary, but essentially we just tapped on your frustration and letting it go. And as that starts to subside, we'd get to a point where we would then reinforce how you want to choose to feel. Right? Instead of feeling frustrated, I want to feel empowered to take even just one step that's going to help me feel better. And so, then we would start to tap to reinforce, “Okay, yes, I'm frustrated, and this is how I'm going to choose to think and feel so that I feel better about my situation.” Yeah.
Jennifer: That is so powerful. That is a really powerful shift to have, and I like that this combines that physical movement. I also feel like there's just some people, stillness is not their way to dealing with anxious energy. Sometimes… Like this morning I woke up, I felt extremely anxious. I got out of bed. I don't even know what time I woke up. It was early. It was dark. It was definitely before 5:00 AM. And finally by five, I was like, “I'm done. I got to get up out of bed.” And for me, I needed to move. And then I sat in meditation, but I think for some people just, we're all wired different, and this could be a really powerful tool for somebody who needs that movement to drop down out of their head.
Sarah: Absolutely.
Jennifer: Get in their body almost. So, it just seems really powerful. And it also doesn't matter what faith you believe in-
Sarah: Oh no.
Jennifer: This is a very powerful tool that anyone can utilize.
Sarah: Absolutely. Yes. And there's a lot of great resources out there. There's some documentaries on tapping. So, if people are curious, they can I'm sure find a lot of great videos to help them better understand. If they're skeptical, or like, “But this still seems strange,” I would encourage them to go find The Tapping Solution documentary. And that'll probably help them really understand more about it too. In addition to the video that I have on my website.
Jennifer: Fair enough. Yeah. So you have a video on your website, which will… I'd like to be able to link to because I think, again, this is very seeing type of thing. I'm the visual learner, so I can appreciate this. Especially being like, “Oh no, I'm not in the right spot. Now I got it. I got it now.
Sarah: I have a 20 minute video that goes over, from start to finish, how to perform-
Jennifer: All of this.
Sarah: … the basic tapping process.
Jennifer: Awesome. We'll make sure to share that with everyone. And Sarah, you have a great website, sarahspears.com. As I was saying, you work with women who are struggling with disordered eating, which happens a lot in the skin community. I work with a lot of clients who are struggling with this. This was the reason I really wanted to find the right person to have this conversation with, because I knew that this may resonate with a lot of people, not realizing that this is a potential way to not only deal with the uncomfortable emotions that they're experiencing, but also… I would imagine too, is this helpful for people who have maybe a history of trauma as well?
Sarah: Oh, yes. This is a great tool for trauma healing. Which I would encourage someone if they-
Jennifer: So there's-
Sarah: … have a history of trauma to work with a trained practitioner because that can be more intense of a process depending on the nature of that experience that they've had.
Jennifer: I can see that.
Sarah: Exactly.
Jennifer: You need somebody to kind of hold this container for you, hold the space.
Sarah: And we have blind spots and places we don't want to go, so it's helpful to have a really safe, supportive person who can just, yes, walk you through it.
Jennifer: Yeah. Be there for you. So everybody can find you… I'm hoping that this is going to be really helpful. I know it's kind of weird if you're listening to it, you just heard us go through this one round-
Sarah: [inaudible 00:29:06] the interest. We've planted this seed of interest and now they can-
Jennifer: In all honesty… Yes, I hope so. And I will say this, while I'm not personally in that space, even me just going through that, I actually felt this calmness. Like my shoulders dropped, I could feel, just from that, not necessarily being that exact person, but experiencing what they're experiencing, and what I have many years ago when I was dealing with eczema. It does help you just relax and feel that sense of peace for a moment. So I think this could be really helpful for people. And I just want to thank you so much for being here and sharing.
Sarah: Oh, my pleasure. I'm happy I got to. I just really believe in this process and I think it's a tool that every human should at least learn and have in their toolbox anytime they need. So, if anybody listened and was really curious and it resonates with them, I'm excited that they'll have the opportunity to learn this for themselves.
Jennifer: Perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining us.
Sarah: You're welcome. My absolute pleasure.
Jennifer: I really appreciate it.
