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If you’re on the hunt for steroid-free itchy scalp remedy options to end the embarrassment and discomfort of flaky, itchy scalp problems, this episode is for you.
From cradle cap in infants to itchy, crusty, flaky dandruff in adults, so many people feel like they’ve tried every dandruff treatment in the book. From medicated anti-dandruff shampoo to topical steroids and other medications, you know that eventually, the flaking, itching, and redness all return.
This is because those treatments don’t deal with the root of the issue, which is an imbalanced scalp microbiome, leading to an overgrowth of things like malassezia.
AND a compromised skin barrier, which can be a trigger for the atopic march (food allergies, dry skin, allergic rhinitis, eczema, and asthma).
Joining me to discuss how to get rid of dandruff, cradle cap removal, and her line of gentle scalp rebalancing products is return guest Ruchi Gupta, MD, MPH. She is a Professor of Pediatrics and Medicine at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine and a Clinical Attending at Ann & Robert H. Lurie Children’s Hospital of Chicago.
Dr. Gupta has over 20 years of experience as a board-certified pediatrician and health researcher and currently serves as the founding director of the Center for Food Allergy & Asthma Research (CFAAR).
She is world-renowned for her research on the epidemiology, economic impact, prevention, and management of allergic conditions, and strives to find answers and shape policies surrounding these conditions in order to reduce burden and improve health equity.
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In This Episode:
- Why Dr. Gupta sought out an effective itchy scalp remedy
- What is cradle cap? (+ cradle cap removal options)
- Why scalp issues in babies could trigger food allergies
- Dandruff causes (+ how the scalp microbiome is involved)
- How Yobee hair products work
- Thoughts on hair products causing MORE scalp inflammation
- Who can use Yobee products? (Can you use it for beardruff + beard care?)
Quotes
“So for the scalp, typically your cells should regenerate every month. And what happens when you have dandruff, it's happening more frequently and that's where you're getting those white flakes. So it's happening almost weekly. And what's causing that? So many things. So we all use different hair products now and a lot of the hair products have chemicals in it. And so what are those chemicals doing to disrupt the microbiome? You have to think about that.”
“Eczema and the cradle cap and food allergies and allergic rhinitis and asthma, they're all connected. And so if you have one, you have a higher chance of having the rest. So those babies with eczema, just like my daughter, develop food allergies. But now we're seeing more and more, like a lot of the creams or, like you said, shampoos will have a food component and that could be causing that food allergy to start up because it's entering them through their skin.”
Links
Find Dr. Gupta online | Instagram | Instagram | Facebook | Facebook | Twitter | Twitter
Find Yobee online and on Instagram
Get Dr. Gupta’s book, Food Without Fear
Healthy Skin Show ep. 327: Demystifying Food Allergy Signs, Symptoms + Skin Rash w/ Dr. Ruchi Gupta
360: Natural Dandruff Treatment + Itchy Scalp Remedy for Adults (AND Cradle Cap For Kids) w/ Dr. Ruchi Gupta {FULL TRANSCRIPT}
Jennifer Fugo (00:12.248)
Dr. Gupta, I'm so excited to have you back on the show so that we can talk about scalp inflammation issue that drives people crazy with flakes all over their clothes, and cradle cap in kids. AND sharing about an itchy scalp remedy that could be helpful, so thank you so much for being here and coming back. I appreciate you.
Ruchi Gupta (00:29.424)
Thank you so much for having me back. I'd love, love this. So I appreciate you.
Jennifer Fugo (00:34.104)
Well, the reason that I wanted to have this conversation with you is I think I learned from you back at the food allergy conference where we met about this whole line that you and actually Dr. Peter Lio helped to work on and create an itchy scalp remedy called Yobee. And I found it so fascinating because it is hard when you're dealing with scalp issues, the itch, the flaking… I get emails from people who have such incredible immense personal embarrassment who, you know, have to wear dark suits or dark shirts and like they are constantly having to brush themselves off, worried people are going to see this, it's in their hair. You have other people who have scalp inflammation, really itchy scalps and then, the kids, like where it's hard and even into babies, where your scalp is just so uncomfortable.
So would you mind sharing what inspired you to care about this and do research around it?
Ruchi Gupta (01:36.866)
Yes, of course, Jennifer. I am a pediatrician. I run a research lab that studies the atopic march. as fate would have it, my daughter was born with severe eczema and terrible cradle cap. And this is now, she's 18. So this is a long, time ago. So when she was born, I realized there were very few treatments other than steroids.
So I was lathering her with steroids. I was putting steroid oil in her scalp, you know? And that is all I had, and she was really miserable. And so, you know, being a researcher who studies eczema, I was like, this is ridiculous. There's got to be something better. So we went on a quest, and my daughter Rhea became my guinea pig, and we would try all kinds of things on her because there had to be a better way. And so fortunately, we did find a group of ingredients that worked really well for her. In fact, it stabilized her. And again, this is 17 years ago now. And what we know now is we were balancing her microbiome instead of stripping it and using steroids to constantly, you know, temporarily relieve it.
We were able to rebalance and put the good stuff back in and make it a healthier climate for her scalp and her skin. And that really changed our worlds. She was so much better, so much more comfortable, and we weren't lathering her with chemicals. So when that happened, and so some of those ingredients were things like honey, which we all know is such a natural anti-inflammatory, probiotics, of course, the whole microbiome piece.
And then other anti-inflammatories like turmeric. And then Peter's like, you have to have B12. So, you know, we put that in there too. So this combination of ingredients in this itchy scalp remedy works so well in her. What happened next is being a physician-researcher, I just started giving it to my patients in clinic and Peter did, and we would mix some, you know, in the lab and hand it out. And this actually went on for 10 years.
Ruchi Gupta (03:57.314)
And this itchy scalp remedy spread then as other clinics would use it. We would pass it out to other attending physicians because I work in the Northwestern Lurie hospital system And then finally Northwestern University heard about it and they're like, “hey if you have something good, why don't you share it with the world?”. And that's when about five years ago, you know, we with their support with Northwestern support we Patented it. We did some studies because as we know – being in the medical field, you gotta prove it through research. And so we did a study in kids and a study in adults and we found that it significantly reduced dryness, dandruff, itching, and inflammation. And then we went full force ahead and we released last November. So it hasn't been that long, almost a year. But we have a scalp mask, which was the original itchy scalp remedy product that we used for my daughter.
And then people wanted a shampoo and conditioner to go along with it. So we created those and then people were using it on their skin. So we created just a cream. So that's it. That's our whole product line, but it's super exciting.
Jennifer Fugo (05:06.464)
Awesome. Well, so you mentioned a couple of things. I think parents, especially parents-to-be, would be a little curious. Could you define what exactly cradle cap is just so everybody knows what we're kind of talking about on the same page? And that is mostly in children, correct? That doesn't happen in adults.
Ruchi Gupta (05:26.861)
Yes, that’s correct.. So when babies are born, their whole microbiome is changing. They get their microbiome mainly from their mom. And then obviously other factors, the environment, other toxins, if they were given antibiotics, everything influences them, right? And influences your microbiome in general. And we're learning more and more about that every single day.
So cradle cap usually happens in infants, usually starts pretty early. They get almost like psoriasis flakes, know, like yellow, flaky things in their scalp. And it is, it's bothersome. Some infants, it irritates and, like my daughter would really want to, you know, scratch and be very irritated. But a lot of times it's more bothersome to the parents because, you know, they've got all these plaques in their scalp and then it gets oily and irritable and sometimes red. And so those are natural symptoms and it's just because of the microbiome that is occurring on their scalp at that point in time and we'll talk a little bit more about that. But cradle cap removal typically involves using some oil and a comb and try to just take out those areas, those flaky areas. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. know, oftentimes as infants get older, it will naturally improve, you know, but the parents are trying all kinds of things. And then a lot of times, pediatricians don't have any other options. They'll use those adult dandruff treatment products like Head and Shoulder or Selsun Blue or some of those dandruff shampoos, or they'll use kind of oily steroids like DermaSmooth for cradle cap removal. So those are common treatments for it.
The interesting thing about cradle cap and what we're learning more and more is that a lot of these infants with cradle cap also have eczema. And so it's this whole pattern that's starting with this atopic march. And, you know, what we're learning more and more is, you know, broken skin or broken scalp, you know, when you have that irritation and inflammation.
Ruchi Gupta (07:48.162)
A lot of the new data suggests that if toxins are introduced through the skin, through that broken skin, through that broken scalp, before they're introduced through natural ways. So for food, for example, through the gut, if they're introduced through the skin, those proteins are hitting the skin. I did this. I was a mom. I was nursing my daughter, and I was eating nuts, right? Because you're so healthy, and you need to snack and stay fed when you're in that busy, busy state of your life. So eating nuts and having an eczematous daughter and all of that protein falling into her skin is in her scalp at that time. I didn't even realize it. We didn't know these things. This was, again, 18 years ago.
So what we've learned now is then it triggers your immune system in a way. It goes to the Th2 pathway to become more atopic and fight those proteins like they're a danger. So what we're now becoming much more aware of is the importance of that microbiome on the skin and the scalp, because if you can keep it balanced and keep that skin barrier protected, it may decrease that whole atopic march, meaning eczema to environmental allergies, to food allergies, to asthma.
That's what's really exciting. The more and more we learn about it, the better it gets for people because we have an opportunity here to make a real impact and prevent disease.
Jennifer Fugo (09:26.808)
Yeah. And so just to be clear, it does sound like in children, young children and babies. Typically, I know when Dr. Lio's been on the show and I've talked to him, he was always like, well, think about the cheeks, the cheeks and kids, like they're smearing food all over and this is potentially introduction. But I guess I didn't think about the scalp. I mean, it's close. Like you said, you could end up getting food particles on this delicate area as well. So that reaction, doesn't necessarily matter what part of the skin could be exposed to, let's just pretend it's a food protein that this poor little child has not yet had introduced orally. Any area, including the scalp, could be a potential entry point.
But it's sort of like sneaking into a concert. You found a door in the side of the building and you're really not supposed to be in there, but that's how you got in. That's sort of like how I'm thinking about this reaction that happens in these kids where they then develop, like your daughter, correct, she has a food, an actual food allergy.
Ruchi Gupta (10:38.304)
Yeah, she does. So she had eczema, cradle cap, and then went on to develop food allergies. Of course, as life would have it, that's everything I study. But I love that, Jennifer. I love what you just said, because now it's like the image is so strong. Like, so you're sneaking in, but then security runs and tries to get you out and protect the concert. Right. Like so. that's exactly what's happening, because then your immune system's like, wait, wait, wait, what's this? Coming in the back door and we need to get rid of it and protect the body. When it's really not an invader, you just couldn't get a ticket and you're gonna be perfectly fine hanging out and listening to the music. You didn't know where the right door was.
Jennifer Fugo (11:21.812)
Exactly. You're like, “well, I didn't quite think they would be sold out. Let me see.” But anyway, I do think that that's an important point to make. think, you know, the one factor that's really fascinating that I love about this is like I focus a lot on the gut microbiome in my practice. And obviously, we are learning constantly this interplay between the gut and the skin and the gut and the brain and all of these different areas that are so important. But one thing you said initially and even before we started was how the scalp microbiome, there is a microbiome there, but it seems to have lagged.
Like we've looked at other skin microbiomes, but I even tried pulling research before this and the scalp microbiome really doesn't, which is interesting because we have hair, it's such an important part of our body, but it does feel like it has been ignored a little bit.
Ruchi Gupta (12:25.066)
I agree. As I started developing Yobee, I was trying to do research and we're studying the scalp microbiome and all the people, the wonderful participants in our trials, we've done pre- and post-scalp swabs and even collecting the microbiome is more challenging because of the hair and everything, but it is different. you're exactly right. I feel like we know the most about the gut, right? The gut microbiome, and we still, there's so much more to know.
Right? Like what is a healthy gut? But people have understood probiotics and keeping their gut healthy. And that's a very well-known thing now in society. And then skin, you know? Like, well, what about the skin? Well, there are trillions of bacteria and microorganisms all across your skin and scalp. And what are those? And what is a healthy microbiome for the skin? And then you get to the scalp, like you said.
And you're like, my gosh, what's this healthy scalp microbiome? Because our hair is so important to us. And how do you keep your hair and have good hair growth? Good, healthy scalp. But we don't discuss this. And it is something that is now becoming more interesting. And so what's so fascinating about the scalp is it is part of the whole skin, this whole largest organ system that we have, or protective organ system.
It's different, right? So you have different bacteria and fungus, right? All the fungi yeast that we talk about that cause that dandruff and irritation. So you'll be, we developed it for babies and we started using it in adults and it really supported adults too, because in the end, all you want is a stable microbiome, you know, that is healthy.
And how do you get there? For the scalp, usually what happens on the scalp is you have, we're learning all the different bacteria that are good and bad, but we know about them, know, malassezia, right? Like that is the one that if it's overgrowing, then you have issues. And so how do you keep it under control? So for the scalp, typically your cells should regenerate every month.
Ruchi Gupta (14:47.594)
And what happens when you have dandruff, it's happening more frequently and that's where you're getting those white flakes. So it's happening almost weekly. And what's causing that? So many things. So we all use different hair products now and a lot of the hair products have chemicals in it. And so what are those chemicals doing to disrupt the microbiome? And so you have to think about that. Other big factors for the scalp, and we all know this, because when you travel from, you know, the Northeast to Florida, your hair poofs out, all the humidity and, you know, what is the humidity and the environmental conditions and pollution due to our scalp and our hair? And we, I feel like everyone notices it in their hair. You know, that's the most common way, but how do you balance that in your scalp to give yourself healthier hair?
So, you know, what I would say in terms of scalp microbiome that we're learning is that, you know, dandruff occurs when you've got that frequent turnover. And we know a lot about malassezia now and how do you keep that under control? And a lot of these anti-dandruff shampoo have antifungals, you know, they're killing it off. But killing it off, it'll just come right back. So that's not just continuously killing something is not a solution for keeping your scalp healthy and actually doing it in a more natural way. And so I think that was our goal with Yobee is how do we put anti-inflammatories like honey and turmeric, you know, and help them support it. And those are more of the prebiotics, you know, and then add in healthy bacteria to, you know, replenish your bacteria and then no chemicals, right? Not adding in other harmful chemicals, harmful fragrance, harmful allergens that could also then cause that disruption. So honestly, the Yobee product line, although it helps with dryness, it's good for any scalp types because all it's doing is giving you that healthy environment.
Jennifer Fugo (16:56.814)
Well, it's also interesting because I was trying to look up research to get prepared for this conversation. And as I said, it's really hard to find much information on the scalp. I know that, interestingly, if like you look at other parts of the body, there's also like a bit of a kind of microbiome and follicles and like especially with acne. It's like, I don't know, there's just so much stuff. We're always learning. It's so fascinating. But a couple of things that I found like one said that like in seborrheic dermatitis, there's higher staph epidermidis present, which I was like, “wait, really? That's interesting!” Then there was interesting ratios that were kind of skewed in the Malassezia – there's different subspecies. And in those different subspecies, some are higher than others versus like when you see dandruff scalps versus healthy scalps. So it's really fascinating. It wasn't what I expected to be entirely honest with you. So I'll be curious to see more research as it comes out. But it's so cool to know that you and Dr. Lio created this little plan and you tested it out so that you could say “yeah, this works”. You guys like made this in a little lab, you know, together and you really use it with patients. So the thing I want to get at too is the ingredient list and we talked about food allergies and I've had Dr. Jeff Yu on the show to talk about contact dermatitis and contact allergies.
But there are a lot of chemicals in shampoo (including in a dandruff shampoo) and hairspray and conditioners and all of this stuff, even though they're marketed to us and sometimes the labels look really green, but you can be allergic to chemicals, even if it's in a “free and clear formula”. So can you talk a little bit about that since obviously your specialty is in more of the allergic side of things and how might if you were allergic to something in a product that you're using, how could that show up on the scalp?
Ruchi Gupta (19:21.654)
Yeah, my goodness. It's so true and it's so frustrating because so many things will look all natural and safe and then you start reading what's in it. So I would say be very, very careful when you try something new. If you have any irritation or you feel something, there are great organizations that substantiate things that are natural and focus on those. Don't just take their word for it, you know, what's on the bottle. But you will see that come up. A lot of times you'll have more irritation or itching, you know, like I think that's one of the first signs you'll feel. You can have like visibly redness, but a lot of times with all our hair, you won't be able to see it. So I feel like the first thing that happens is itching or your hair won't feel the same or you'll feel irritated in some way.
If that happens, really go back and look at the ingredient list of that product because most things have something, right? Some kind of fragrance. You could be reacting to the fragrance. You could be reacting, a lot of them, and we talk about this so much in food allergy, have food as one of the ingredients. And so you have to be very, very careful about that, especially with those young infants, but for anyone what is the food that you're putting on your scalp or your skin? A lot of skin and scalp things have that. So yes, I mean, the allergy piece is so important because they all go together. All of those, eczema and the cradle cap and food allergies and allergic rhinitis and asthma, they're all connected. And so if you have one, you have a higher chance of having the rest, right? So those babies with eczema, just like my daughter, develop food allergies. But now we're seeing more and more, like lot of the creams or, like you said, shampoos will have a food component and that could be causing that food allergy to start up because it's entering them through their skin. So I really appreciate you bringing that up because it is very, very important when you try.
Ruchi Gupta (21:36.62)
Cleaning supplies too. Whatever you use, when you make a change, if you start feeling anything, whether it be rashes or redness or itching or irritation, take another look at that and talk to your doctor or look it up and really understand what those ingredients are.
Jennifer Fugo (21:52.926)
And I think it'll be helpful too for maybe adults who either have food allergies or who have kids right now who have food allergies. So what I hear you saying is that if you have a food allergy, like you know it, you've been diagnosed with it, especially I would assume if it's life-threatening, you should not.
Do you use a topical? And topical, mean anything that you're applying to your skin that contains that ingredient. Like for example, I interviewed Dr. Stacy Silvers. He talked about dairy allergies and we went really in the weeds about dairy and he was just like, yeah, I probably, if you have a dairy allergy, like a legit IgE dairy allergy, I would not use products even with goat milk in them.
So what's your thoughts on that for someone who has a diagnosed allergy? Do they need to be careful with shampoos and conditioners and moisturizers and such that may be more natural and could potentially have a food -based ingredient profile that is found in that product?
Ruchi Gupta (23:01.018)
100%. Yes. I mean, if you have a true IgE-mediated food allergy and any of that food that you're allergic to comes in contact with your skin, you develop a rash. know, it's, you know, contact in that food, your skin reacts, you know, and that's what, you know, when you do skin prick tests, you know, so it is very, very important if you have a food allergy that you know about to avoid any products with those foods in them. 100%. But you know, I'm really excited. I would love the world to all use the itchy scalp remedy Yobee from babies up to the elderly. It's safe and effective for everyone. But what's so exciting is you have options, right? There are many, many more natural products, your products, you know, like there's so many incredible new products that are really safe and natural. So when you have choices, take them. Don't go for the big brands that, you know, smell really good because it's like a fragrance, you know? And so being very vigilant will keep you healthier. And honestly, I really do believe, and I know more and more literature is coming this way, but we just use too many cleansers, right? We're like constantly soaping up and shampooing. If you can get healthier ones that don't have as many of those harsh cleansers, because those cleansers are stripping your microbiome every time you use it. So how often do we have to use them and are there are better options? And, know, definitely no antibacterials. Like those drive me crazy. Like you are literally killing off the bacteria and it's not just bad bacteria. We have so much good bacteria that we know about. And so being very, very careful. think, you know, the pendulum kind of swung, you know, we had all these diseases and we swung it to the other side. We're like, my gosh, we have to be super clean. But then there's consequences with that too. So we need to get kind of in that middle zone where we are clean, but we're not using all those harsh chemicals and antibacterials.
Jennifer Fugo (25:05.336)
Yeah, so I know that I'll have people asking these questions. So I figured I'd ask you just in case somebody's like, “is Yobee right for me?”. Who can use this dandruff treatment product? Can we also use this itchy scalp remedy on babies and women who are pregnant?
Ruchi Gupta (25:21.43)
Yes, absolutely and you know that's what we're so excited about. mean you can use it on babies, kids, adults and you know you can use the same one. You know we have, I have it right here, we've got Yobee and we've got baby kids and adults dandruff treatment, but honestly everyone can use the baby version. If you get the baby version, use it for yourself, and what's so great about it is as a scalp mask, it's really thick.
It does have honey in it. So just be careful. Baby shouldn't consume it, you know, but it is, you know, just like steroids, baby should not eat the steroids that you're putting on them. but, you know, it's thick rinse, you know, put it in on your baby's scalp, especially if they have cradle cap, even if they don't, it's healthy for them. And then just leave it in for a couple of minutes and rinse it out, you know, and that's it.
And for adults, you know, what I do is I use the scalp mask. I wash my hair every day just to have it. But now I use the scalp mask every other day. And I just put a little in my hand, mix it with some water, massage it in and rinse it out. And scalp feels great. And I didn't put a cleanser in, but it feels clean. And then obviously we have the dandruff shampoo and conditioner. And then you can use these. And I really love a scalp massager. We have it with it. But like just massaging your scalp and opening it up, you know, is really good for your scalp as well. you know, those are, it's kind of the way to do it. So the scalp mask alone, you don't need anything else for babies. You don't need dandruff shampoos, you don't need conditioners, just the scalp mask. For adults, you could do the scalp mask alone too. If you really want a shampoo or a conditioner, you know, alternate it or do the scalp mask like you do a face mask every weekend, you know, just add it in and so I feel like people get their own routines and what works, but honestly, a lot of guys especially and me, scalp mask alone. It's like your itchy scalp remedy shampoo, conditioner and one, but it's so healthy for your scalp.
Jennifer Fugo (27:27.752)
My husband has had issues with beardruff, right? So could you also use this itchy scalp remedy on the beard as part of your beard care or in the eyebrows if you have issues there?
Ruchi Gupta (27:34.461)
My goodness, yes! So many men have been using it on their beards and with so much success. Yes, it is. I, know, everyone's like you can. We have people saying it and then guys are like, well, can you make a beard care product? I'm like, you mean put the same stuff in a jar and just call it beard care? Like just, just get it. I'm not like, “I don't want to sell more,” but the same thing is going to work on everyone in your family and your scalp as well as for beard care. So it's just the only product you need. So absolutely. Thanks for bringing that up.
Jennifer Fugo (28:14.422)
Yeah, and then I figured the one last question that anybody who colors their hair, and I know you have to be really careful because obviously some shampoos will strip the hair, the color and cause issues. is this safe for color hair that is colored?
Ruchi Gupta (28:31.67)
Yes. Not only is it safe, it's good for hair that's colored. We're in some salons, we're getting in more salons and spas along with the derm offices like Dr. Peter Lio’s office and allergy offices and Peds offices, but they use Yobee scalp mask after every color treatment because you're adding chemicals to your scalp when you color your hair and this is helping replenish it immediately. So not only is it safe for colored hair, it's good for colored hair. And then using it on a regular basis will also help not only keep your color and keep your scalp stable, but be healthy for you. So yes.
Jennifer Fugo (29:16.457)
I'm glad to know that we have all these itchy scalp remedy options. You guys do have a website – www.yobeecare.com. And I'll certainly put that links in the show notes as well as your amazing book, which we talked about the last time, Food Without Fear. Especially that's great if you have food allergies, your kids have food allergies, so to better really understand especially anaphylactic food allergies. I thought that is just such an amazing resource for people. you know, I'll link up where everybody can find this. I just so deeply appreciate you sharing about these this amazing line that you you and Dr. Lio helped bring to life. And I really truly hope that it'll be helpful for listeners out there who are struggling with this, especially because it's something more natural and something that they know has actually been used in practice for a long time that got people results.
Ruchi Gupta (30:13.578)
Definitely yes. I mean, that is our only intention. I think we share that vision, Jennifer – how do you get better, safer, more natural, science-proven itchy scalp remedy products to people? Our tagline is “a lifetime of healthy.” And that's what we want from babies to adults, you know, just healthier products. So yes, thank you. And, you know, if you have food allergies, also feel free to look at the CFAAR website, have so many free resources on there for anyone with food allergies, from babies to help with school and policies and just care plans. So please feel free to use all our free resources there too.
Jennifer Fugo (31:02.734)
Thank you so much for joining us again. And I look forward to hopefully having you back sometime. We always have more to talk about Dr. Gupta.
Ruchi Gupta (31:08.81)
Yes. my goodness. Always. Yeah. See, this is excellent. It's so informative. I love your program. It is wonderful. So thank you for having me!
Jennifer Fugo, MS, CNS
Jennifer Fugo, MS, CNS is an integrative Clinical Nutritionist and the founder of Skinterrupt. She works with women who are fed up with chronic gut and skin rash issues discover the root causes and create a plan to get them back to a fuller, richer life.