239: How To Wash Your Face (PART 1) w/ Rachael Pontillo

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This is a two-part interview! Check out part 2 by clicking HERE!

Skincare can be confusing. What are the steps to putting everything on? Do we even need a multi-step regimen? My guest today will discuss the differences in ingredients and why she thinks we need to trim our care routines down.

 

Or, listen on your favorite app: iTunes (Apple Podcasts) | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | Subscribe on Android

My guest today, Rachael Pontillo, is a holistic skincare innovator, author, and educator. She is the bestselling author of the book Love Your Skin, Love Yourself, and co-author of The Sauce Code.

She’s a functional nutrition practitioner, AADP and IAHC Board Certified International Health Coach, licensed aesthetician; and natural skincare formulator and educator. She’s the president and co-founder of the Nutritional Aesthetics™ Alliance, the creator of the popular skincare and healthy lifestyle blog, Holistically Haute™, as well as the much-loved online course, Create Your Skincare.

She’s an avid herbalist, skincare ingredient aficionado, and lifelong learner.

Join us as we discuss what to look for when choosing a holistic and herbal skincare regime along with HOW to use it.

What's your favorite skincare regimen? Let me know in the comments!

CHECK OUT PART 2 of this conversation HERE!

In this episode:

• What should you look for when choosing skincare?

• The problem with over-cleansing + excessive exfoliation (often pushed by the skincare industry)

• Why fancy cleansers are a WASTE of your money

• Breaking down different cleanser ingredient options

• Is using a toner REALLY necessary?

• Why some preservatives aren't necessarily bad

Quotes

“Unfortunately, a lot of the products that are in big cosmetics are intended to create some sort of a temporary visual effect so that you think you're getting results, but in the long run, it's not doing you any good because they want you to keep buying products.” [5:26]

“It's not uncommon to see a preservative in a hydrosol. Not all preservatives are bad. It is a water. So, anytime you have a product with water, that means that the potential for microbial growth is there. So, I don't want people getting caught up in this notion that their skincare has to be preservative free, and then get something that hasn't been preserved properly. [29:31]

Links

Find Rachael online HERE

Create Your Skincare

Nutritional Aesthetics

DON'T MISS OUT ON YOUR FREE GIFT! Free DIY skincare course, Boutique Skincare Basics–learn what you need to know if you want to make your own products to make sure you're using the right ingredients for your skin and doing it safely–plus you'll learn to make a simple, custom cleansing oil and moisturizer!

Purchase her books: Love Your Skin, Love Yourself and The Sauce Code

Healthy Skin Show episode 024: Most Harmful Ingredients Hiding In Skin Care w/ Rachael Pontillo

Healthy Skin Show episode 114: Why Preservatives In Skincare Can Be A Good Thing w/ Rachael Pontillo

Healthy Skin Show ep. 145: The Problem With Sensitive Skincare Products No One Talks About w/ Rachael Pontillo

Healthy Skin Show ep. 160: How To Care For Rosacea Skin To Avoid More Redness w/ Rachael Pontillo

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239: How To Wash Your Face (PART 1) w/ Rachael Pontillo FULL TRANSCRIPT

Jennifer: Rachel, I am so glad to have you back, especially with today's topic, because I feel like you're my go-to person for all things skincare. And that's what we're going to talk about today. So, thanks for being here.

Rachael: Well, thank you so much for having me. It's always, always a pleasure.

Jennifer: All right. So, I'm going to admit to everyone here that I am not a skincare expert. I think you all have probably heard me say this before. I'm not. That's why I have Rachel on the show. That's why I have actually worked with Rachel. Rachel has helped me with my own skin.

And I think maybe part of the reason that I've always had a not so great relationship, especially with the skin on my face, which is what most of us are usually worried about the most, except if we have severe rashes someplace else, that's obvious, is that growing up, my mother was not super into skincare. I had acne as a teenager. And I was told to use Cetaphil to wash my face. And I wasn't super into makeup and whatnot. So, I never really got beyond the, you wash your face part of skincare. And I think that's where a lot of the confusion came about.

So, for anybody listening, who's been like, “Oh, I understand that. I don't understand these systems and sequences of steps, and how do you do… So wait, do you wash your face, and you put moisturizer on it? You're supposed to do stuff before that.” We're going to demystify this today. I know this is a little bit different of the topic, but I think it's worthwhile to have the conversation because many of us have sensitive skin issues or skin problems. And so, I thought Rachel could help us learn, just from a very simplistic perspective, how do we take care of the skin on our face and on our neck, which I really have always had questions about. But we're going to talk about that today.

So thanks, Rachel. So, what are your thoughts on that? Those of us who are not really that tuned in and know how to do all of this with our skincare routine.

Rachael: Okay. Well, first of all, I want to say that I do feel overall that most people over-complicate their skincare routines. And especially if you're someone who struggles with any type of skin condition like acne, like eczema, psoriasis, or just sensitivity, dryness, anything like that, there's a good chance that you've been told, you've got to use all these products and this big system. And the products are formulated to work together and blah, blah, blah. And I'm telling you that most often it's overkill and it's probably exacerbating the problem, because the industry wants you to keep buying products.

Jennifer: Very true.

Rachael: Unfortunately, a lot of the products that are in big cosmetics are intended to create some sort of a temporary visual effect so that you think you're getting results, but in the long run, it's not doing you any good because they want you to keep buying products.

So, I cannot tell you how many times when I work with a client whose skin is very angry, irritated, dry, anything like that, whether they have an active condition or not, usually the first thing we do when we look at their skincare products is, I ask, “Well, why are you using this? And what is it doing for you?” Because sometimes people have an emotional attachment to a brand or an emotional attachment to an idea.

You mentioned your mom wasn't really into skincare. Well, sometimes if someone's mom was really into skincare, they grow up with this idea that they have to use all this stuff, where the truth is that it's often either not the right routine for that person, or it's just overkill.

So, I really like to strip it down to basics for people and focus on giving them what they need to support their skin as it is now, while also gently working to help them topically, to get the hydration, the nourishment and protection they need, because skincare really is an inside-out and outside-in job. You've got to really address it both ways because the skin is our first defense against the elements, right? Especially the skin on our face, because it's exposed, whereas, the skin on our body is usually covered. In most climates, it's usually covered. And it's also the epidermal layers are thicker, whereas on the skin, it's thinner, it's exposed and we just tend to do more to it.

So, I like to really start with encouraging people to take a lighter hand. I think that over-cleansing and over-exfoliating is a big root cause, topically for many people. And I think because a lot of the cleansers on the market they're harsh. They're made with mostly water, then usually some sort of a synthetic detergent to get that foaming action. And we've been sold this whole notion that skin has to be squeaky clean, otherwise you're not clean. And nobody wants to be thought of as unclean. God forbid. But the fact of the matter is that science has shown us that, hi, we have a microbiome and we don't want to strip away all of the bacteria and micro-organisms that are living on the surface because they're actually there to help us.

And aside from the microbiome, the skin also has what's called a lipid barrier, which is basically, what we see here is keratin cells that have flattened and died off, but they stay on the surface to protect us. And they're held together by this lipid matrix. There are other things in there too, like sweat and other substances, but we have sebum, which is the oil that our skin naturally produces. There are ceramides, types of cholesterol that are also in that lipid barrier, that are there to act as not only glue to keep that armor of those dead cells there until our body tells us and signals that it's naturally to time for them to slough off, but it also helps to seal in whatever hydration is in the cells and the deeper layers of the epidermis. Because without that hydration, the cells can't function properly.

And a lot of people believe that the epidermis, which is the outermost layer of the skin, is only these dead cells that are meant to fall off, but that's not true. There are other important cells that rest in the lower layers of the epidermis that have a lot to do with immune support, with pigmentation. And they have a lot of important things to do while they're rising to the surface.

So, that lipid barrier keeps are not natural moisture in. And it also helps to keep things from the environment that are harmful to our skin out. And if we're constantly using cleansers that have those detergents in them, or we're using high alkaline soaps, or we are using exfoliants, whether our clean have some sort of enzyme or alpha-hydroxy acid, or even a manual exfoliant like a scrub, if we're doing that on a daily basis, we are stripping away that barrier constantly, leaving the skin susceptible to environmental damage as well as dehydration.

Jennifer: So, from a practical perspective, just in talking about cleansing your skin, obviously, cleanser for everyone who's listening is going to vary, based off of a variety of factors. So, like for example, people are always asking me, “What do you use to wash your face?” And I'm like, “I don't know if what I use personally is appropriate for you.”

And actually, you have helped me also realize that my skincare routine, especially what I'm using to wash my face has to change with the seasons because what I use in spring summer into fallish when it's warm, overly dries my face as winter sets in, because we live, you and I both live in an area where there are four seasons.

Rachael: Correct.

Jennifer: And so, what works for me doesn't work for somebody else. So, like for example, I use a bar soap for those of you listening. If you're like, “What? A bar soap.” I had the same thought when Rachel made this.

Rachael: And I'm so glad you brought that up, because it's one of my favorite things to talk about.

Jennifer: So, let's talk about that. So, there's a bar soap is a cleanser. There's those milk cleansers, which is what I used to use that got me in a lot of trouble with my skin. Then there's oil cleansing. And then there's foaming ones. So, what are the difference between those?

Rachael: Okay. So, there's a lot of different types of cleansers. I'm going to start by talking about the bar soaps because there is this huge notion that soap is bad for your skin. And I mean, we have a whole cosmetics industry and this whole idea of non-soap cleansers, soap-free cleansers being better. Body wash came out of that whole idea, that soap is bad. Not all soaps are the same. That's really important to understand, because the soaps that are the mass produced, conventional, synthetic soaps that maybe you see on TV, or you see at the drug store, or even in the grocery store, the way those have been made is not the same as how a handmade, plant-based soap would be made. The ingredients are very different.

So, a conventional soap is going to have oils that are usually petrochemicals, like mineral oil or white petrol. So, basically baby oil and Vaseline is what they use.

Jennifer: Oh my.

Rachael: Yeah. So, it doesn't mean necessarily that those are bad. It just means that they don't provide any actual nutrients to the skin. So, when they are saponified, saponification is the process where you add an alkaline, typically sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide to a fat. And that mineral oil or the white petrolatum would be that fat. It causes a chemical reaction that turns the fats into soap. And then it also produces glycerin. Glycerin is something that is a humectant. It is also a lower pH. It has very gentle cleansing properties. And it can be separated out from that soap mix. However, you don't want to do that because the glycerin provides hydration. It's soothing. It's softening. It's conditioning. And it also helps to prevent that pH from getting so alkaline that it can actually be damaging.

So, when you have a conventional soap, what they do is they actually treat it, so that the glycerin separates away from the rest of the soap. And sometimes, I mean, they'll save it. And sometimes you can make a glycerin soap itself or they'll use the glycerin for other things. Glycerin has a lot of different uses. And glycerin will also be different depending on what it's been made from. So, the reason they do that though, is because soap has to cure for usually a month before it can be used. Okay?

Jennifer: Wow.

Rachael: Yeah. It has to harden. That saponification process, it becomes less and less irritated. That alkaline neutralizes over time. And then you can use it. So, if you're making your own soap, if you purchase soap, that's made traditionally, it usually cures for about a month, but in mass production, they don't have time for that. So, they strip out the glycerin, which is that moisture, so that the other components of the soap dry fast and dry hard.

Jennifer: Wow.

Rachael: So, what you're left with is something that will give you very good foaming action, very good cleansing, but it's very, very drying, not to mention alkaline. All soaps are a little bit alkaline. That's important to say. While handmade soaps can be manipulated to be a little bit less alkaline, it can't be completely neutral or acidic. Otherwise, you don't have soap anymore. You just have oils.

Jennifer: And can I ask you really quick, because I had that one client, who had come to me using glycerin, a glycerin bar as her face wash. And I was like, “I don't know.” See, you guys, I don't know everything. This is why I have friends like Rachel. And I was like, “Rachel, is this a good thing to use on your face?” And she was like, “Oh, let me tell you.” So, is a glycerin bar… Obviously, we want to be careful it sounds like from a conventional standpoint of what glycerin is made from. But if you found someone who was hand making a glycerin bar, would that possibly it be a good option for somebody with very sensitive skin? I hate to use that term sensitive skin.

Rachael: I know.

Jennifer: Maybe more dry skin, and you need more hydration from when you wash your face.

Rachael: Yeah. So, glycerine itself is a pretty powerful humectant. So, it does have the ability to bring water into the skin. It also is very softening and conditioning. So, when you wash your face with glycerin, whether it's a glycerin bar soap, or if you just buy vegetable glycerin as a liquid, you can use that to cleanse. With some people, mix that with honey. Some people mix that with some other things or aloe, or something and they make their own cleanser just out of that. It is very softening. However, it's not as strong in its cleansing properties. So, while it might be good, if you're someone who doesn't wear makeup or you're not doing anything that is making your skin all that dirty, then you might not need that cleansing effect. But if you are someone who wears makeup, glycerin soap is probably not going to remove that makeup unless it also has sort of a surfactant built into that soap.

There are a lot of soaps that are on the market that are known as beauty bars. Dove soap is actually a really great example of that because it's known to be the better soap for the skin, because I think its pH is around six. But Dove soap is actually not soap.

Jennifer: It's not?

Rachael: Nope. It is surfactants and synthetically made fatty acids. So, when they say there's lotion in it, it's basically synthetically fatty acids that are mixed with water. And then there are surfactants which are synthetic detergents that have been added to give it the foaming nature. So, you're getting the moisture from the synthetic fatty acids in the water, and you're getting the foaming action from those surfactants, which surfactants are a type of detergent that what they do is basically, if you imagine the surface of your skin and there's like that lipid barrier, which any dirt or makeup will be in that lipid barrier, it basically just separates the dirt from the skin below, and unfortunately, usually washes away those lipids. But because it does have those fatty acids, it is a little bit more gentle on the lipid barrier in that way. But it's not a true soap because it's not actually saponified fat product. That's why they're able to have a lower pH.

Jennifer: Yes. You guys, this is seriously why. So, a lot of my very tricky clients that are reacting to everything, Rachel is kind enough to do consultations with them. I send them to Rachel. Because see, I didn't know any of this. She knows this is the benefit of having somebody that's so well versed. And it's an interesting gift that you have that you've spent a long time honing too, Rachael, learning all of this about how to take care of different forms of skin and looking at these various different factors to help somebody pick the right type. Especially when they're going through like a crazy flare or something like that, how do you pick the right products? And to be honest with you, you guys, we're not even talking about a flare here, we're just talking about how do you take care of your skin when it isn't all broken out.

So, all right. So, the Dove soap is a surfactant. Then we've got the foam cleansers and milk cleansers.

Rachael: Yes. So, any cleanser that has any type of foaming action, either has a soap or a surfactant in it. And I don't want the idea to come across that all surfactants are bad. They're not. There are plenty of surfactants that are plant-derived that are non-toxic and that are non-irritant. There are four different categories of surfactants. I'm not going to get into the whole chemistry thing of it here, but the main point is some of them are very harsh, very irritant.

Sodium laureth sulfate, sodium lauryl sulfate are two of the most skin and eye irritants surfactants that are still being used in cosmetics. I do recommend people avoid those because there is enough science showing that they cause detriment to the skin more than they cause benefit. And most people do not need that powerful of a surfactant or a detergent action on their face. They just don't. It's far too drying, too irritant.

So, there are other surfactants that are used in cream cleansers, milk cleansers. If you've heard of micellar water, that's a really common product that's used to remove makeup. It originated in France as this very big trend. It looks like either water or like the consistency of, I would say like skim milk almost.

Jennifer: Interesting.

Rachael: And what it is, is a humectant like a glycerin or like aloe vera gel plus water, where a hydrosol can be used. And then a very specific type of surfactant, which creates a chemical reaction that provides enough oil to remove the makeup, but enough water to make it feel very refreshing. So, it's almost like washing your face with water or skin milk. That's what it feels like, but that's really great for removing eye makeup remover. It's great, if you like the idea of using oils to cleanse your face, but you don't like the feeling of using oils to cleanse your face.

So, that's something that is good. I would just make sure that if you do purchase a micellar cleanser on the market, make sure that it's fragrance free and as few ingredients as possible, because some of them are a little overly complicated for my-

Jennifer: Dodgy.

Rachael: Yeah. And then, regular milk and cream cleaners are basically a cream or a lotion that you would use as a moisturizer with a surfactant added. So, you would take one of those surfactants that I mentioned that are on the more gentle side, and you would add that to a regular cream or lotion formula. So, if you can tolerate a cream or a lotion, technically, you would be able to tolerate a milk or a cream cleanser. And the good thing about that is that the surfactant in it will cleanse. The oils in it will help to remove whatever makeup or any dirt that is oil-loving, lipophilic from the skin without stripping it away because it's actually putting oil back in. And it's also, you are having the benefit of the hydration, because all creams and lotions are emotions, which are a mix of water and oil.

So, cream and milk cleansers, I really like for people who have drier skin. I don't really like cleansers that are a gel base, if you have, either irritated, skin broken skin or dry skin, because it's not putting any oil in and it's just taking things away.

So, I know a lot of people who have acne or eczema are told that they maybe shouldn't put certain oils on their skin. So, they're given these gel cleansers. We all need both water and oil on our skin. And if we are stripping all that away with our cleanser, then we have to put it back artificially with moisturizers. And we don't really need to do that because our skin has it naturally. So, I like to just cleanse away what our skin doesn't need, but keep what it makes that it does need, that's there for a purpose.

Jennifer: Yeah. And you were saying too, there are some ingredients that are added to cleansers, that should not be added to cleansers because… Well, you take it away.

Rachael: Well, let me tell you something about cleansers. It seems really obvious, but a lot of people just forget about this when they're buying products that are maybe in a system or something like that. Your cleanser is going down the drain. It's also staying on your skin for a matter of seconds. It is not there to actually cause any therapeutic effect. So, when I see cleansers that contain really expensive oils like organ oil or rosehip oil or active ingredients like retinol or vitamin C, or green tea extract or anything like that, I think to myself, “Why?” They're just charging you more money. It's usually in there, just so that they can charge you more money. It's not cleansing your skin better. It's not staying on the skin long enough to produce any beneficial effect. It's being washed off.

So, if you're going to buy products that have expensive oils or butters, or performance ingredients, or vitamins, or herbs, keep that for a leave-on product like a serum and a carrier oil itself, that's been infused with herbs or a moisturizer that contains those. Do not spend a lot of money on your cleanser. I would rather see people wash their face with plain old honey and remove makeup with a plain old oil like olive oil or jojoba oil, than to spend $20, $30, $40 on a cleanser just because it has all this stuff in it. It is completely a waste of money.

Jennifer: Thank you. Thank you. I hope this saves everyone who's listening. Now you can be smart. You see those crazy ingredients in your cleanser, you'll be like, “Nope. I'm going to put that back.”

Rachael: It's so unnecessary.

Jennifer: Don't waste your money. And okay, so I have to ask, do you wash your neck or do you just wash your face?

Rachael: That's a great question. The neck is really important because it's as exposed as the face is, but I think a lot of people ignore it. So, I do recommend washing the neck with whatever cleanser you're using to wash your face, not whatever you're using to cleanse your body, because most of the body washes or body soaps are a little bit stronger. They're for skin that's a little tougher and that isn't as exposed. Okay?

So, I recommend whatever you use on your face, you can also use on your neck. You don't have to buy any separate neck products or anything like that. I know that there are like neck creams and neck serums, and all that. That's just marketing. Whatever you use on your face, you can use on your neck. And it is beneficial to do that.

I will show you just quickly, when you're working on the neck, you want to be working in gentle, downward strokes. You don't want to be going up because the lymphatic flow is going down. So, you want to be supporting that. So, wash just very gently with gentle downward strokes. And then for the face, you can come up on the jaw line and up and out for the face, but downward strokes for the neck.

Jennifer: Fair enough. All right. So, we washed the face. Now, we've got step one going.

Rachael: Yes.

Jennifer: We've washed off the cleanser, whatever you chose to use. And then you had me, you said, “Jen, well, you need to use a toner of some sort.” And I'm like, “A toner? Don't those sting?” I don't know. My experience with toners must not have been good earlier in life.

Rachael: Mine wasn't either. I'm not going to lie.

Jennifer: What is a toner? And can we talk about the differences? Because I came to learn from working with you that like for example, we ended up doing a hydrosol for my skin, but using it as a toner. So, can we talk a little bit about that? This would be step two.

Rachael: Absolutely. So, after you cleanse, it is a good idea to use a toner. The main purpose is to help bring the pH back down, because whether you're using a non-soap type cleanser or an oil, or a regular soap based cleanser, the pH of water is already higher than what the pH of the skin is. The skin's pH is more acid. And it needs to be that way because that's what its microbes need in order to thrive.

So, we all wash with water. So, we're all going to be exposed to that higher pH. And if we're using a higher pH cleanser, that can throw things off. So, the toner is a little bit more acidic, not super acidic to the point where it burns. Some of the old fashioned toners really were, they were super acidic. And then they had other really drying ingredients like alcohol in them, which really made people have dry and sensitive skin, which is how toner got a bad rep. But really the purpose of a toner is to help refresh it after cleansing and reset that pH. And a toner can stay on the skin or it can be wiped away.

A hydrosol which is a product that comes from steam distilling plants when you make essential oils. One way to do it is by steam distillation, where you put the plant matter in this big copper or glass, steel, you boil water under it. Steam carries the volatile compounds and the water soluble compounds up and over. It condenses again and separates out into essential oils. And then the hydrosol is the water that comes from it condensing.

So, the hydrosol has a lot of the benefits that essential oils have, but it's a lot less concentrated, but it's still aromatic. So, if you like the smell of say, lavender essential oil, lavender hydrosol smells the same way, but you can use it a lot more liberally. You don't have to worry about dermal limits. It's safe for pets, safe for children. And it's also a water-based product instead of an oil. So, it's something that also is closer to the skin's pH. And you're getting not only some of the volatile compounds that are beneficial and therapeutic, but also some of the water soluble compounds that get carried up in the steam. So, you're getting antioxidants, certain vitamins, other nutrients in a hydrosol, that you might not necessarily get if you were to just make a herbal infusion or boil rose petals or something like that, because you're getting the pressure and the heat from the steam in that process.

So, I really like using hydrosols and toners. There are plants that have naturally astringent properties, which means that they gently encourage firming and tightening, which can be great for people who have redness.

Rose hydrosol, for example, is one that naturally is vasoconstricting, which means it gently helps to constrict blood vessels that are distended, but it does so in a way that it's not interfering with the skin's natural processes or the natural process of circulation. That's just one of the properties that rose has. And there are other plants that do that too. Cucumber is another one. Interestingly, cucumber hydrosol smells like pickle juice. So, you might have to be careful with that one.

Jennifer: Well, the one thing I did learn, and I think it's worthwhile me mentioning, was actually at Whole Foods looking for a hydrosol, and I found these hydrosols, which came from an organic company, but had alcohol in them. And so, I just want to make everybody aware of that. You are looking for, and correct me if I'm wrong, Rachel, but you're looking for a hydrosol, if you do purchase one, that does not have any preservatives, right? Or alcohol in it. Talk a little bit about that.

Rachael: Let me pause on that. So, it depends on the hydrosol. There are some hydrosols, like rose hydrosol if it's a very good quality rose hydrosol, it actually inherently has a compound called phenethyl alcohol, which is a naturally occurring antimicrobial. So, that might have a longer shelf life than a different hydrosol that does not have that compound. So, it really does depend on which hydrosol it is.

So, it's not uncommon to see a preservative in a hydrosol. Not all preservatives are bad. It is a water. So, anytime you have a product with water, that means that the potential for microbial growth is there. So, I don't want people getting caught up in this notion that their skincare has to be preservative free, and then get something that hasn't been preserved properly.

Jennifer: We do by the way, have a whole episode on that, which I will link up in the show notes, if you're curious to hear more of about that.

Rachael: Yeah. So, most hydrosols that you will see in retail will have some sort of preservative in them. Sometimes it might be alcohol. More often, it's going to be something different, something like a bio ferment or another type of antimicrobial.

Jennifer: Okay. So, is it okay then if the hydrosol has alcohol added to it?

Rachael: It's hard to say because it depends on how much alcohol is in it, which we most likely won't know, just from reading a label. Typically, alcohol is not the best preservative. It does not offer all that long term protection. If you are DIYing and using like vodka or brandy as a preservative, that'll maybe buy you three months.

Jennifer: If you were making it yourself?

Rachael: Yeah. And you would need to use it at like 15% to 20%. So, if you're seeing it on a shelf, it's probably a higher strength alcohol like an ethanol. And that type of alcohol is more effective, but still not a long term preservative. So, it would need to be used quickly. But also some people do experience dryness and sensitization from alcohol, if it's too strong and if it's too high a percentage. So, it's not my favorite thing to see on shelves.

Jennifer: Okay. So, we apply the hydrosol, we'll just say hydrosol, because witch hazel is another, I feel like popular toner out there.

Rachael: And witch hazel can be found in a hydrosol. It can be obtained via steam distillation. It can also be infused. And witch hazel is also a natural astringent. Some people don't tolerate it though. So, that's important to know. And also a lot of the witch hazel on the market doesn't just have preservatives, but sometimes it has other stuff mixed into it, so you want to again, read those labels. It's not uncommon to see witch hazel with some sort of preservative. That's okay, if it's a good preservative. You don't want it with parabens or anything like that. But you don't want to see anything else really added, but a preservative for witch hazel is usually necessary.

CHECK OUT PART 2 of this conversation HERE!