Last Updated on September 25, 2025
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Have you ever tried maca root powder for perimenopause treatment and wondered why it didn’t work? Or maybe it made your symptoms worse?
While maca is often touted as a catch-all hormone balancer, most people don’t realize that the maca root powder supplements comes from many different types of the maca plant. Research now shows that all maca root isn’t created equal, meaning that all the various types of maca root plants don’t help, support or affect your body in the same way.
Certain types of maca root plants are better suited for women in perimenopause or menopause, while others are better to support men’s prostate, reproductive health, and declining testosterone ( sometimes called “manopause”).
So if a company combines the wrong types of maca root powder, you can end up with worsening hormonal imbalance or even overstimulation, triggering issues like anxiety, acne, or energy crashes.
In this eye-opening episode diving into the complex and fascinating world of maca root supplements, Dr. Deanna Minich, PhD joins us again! She’s a nutrition scientist, educator, and author, with over twenty years of experience in academia and in the natural product industries, currently serving as Chief Science Officer at Symphony Natural Health. She has been active as a functional medicine clinician in clinical trials and in her own practice (Food & Spirit™).
Dr. Minich is also the author of six books on wellness topics, four book chapters, and over fifty scientific publications. Through her talks, workshops, groups, and in-person retreats, she helps people to transform their lives practically and artfully through nutrition and lifestyle.
If you’re considering using maca root for perimenopause treatment — or have tried it and been disappointed — this episode will help you know how to pick the right type of maca root for your health needs.
Or, listen on your favorite app: iTunes (Apple Podcasts) | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | Subscribe on Android
In This Episode:
- Raw vs. gelatinized maca root powder (Is raw safe for everyone?)
- Best types of maca root powder for perimenopause treatment (AND menopause + manopause)
- Are you sure your maca root powder is free from heavy metals? (Here’s how to tell)
- For the guys – maca root benefits for prostate and testosterone health
- How maca root supplements act as an adaptogen
- Can you take maca root powder alongside hormone replacement therapy (HRT)?
- Does maca root affect cholesterol, bone density, and blood sugar?
- How to choose a high-quality maca root supplement (with research showing that it works)
Quotes
“[Maca root is] anti-inflammatory, anti-microbial, potent antioxidant, which we could attribute to some degree to those phytochemicals and the color.”
“Menopause is the declining function of the endocrine system.”
Links
Find Dr. Minich online | Instagram | Facebook
Try Femmenessence Clinically Studied Maca Root Supplement HERE
Use of Gelatinized Maca Root (Lepidium Peruvianum) in Early Postmenopausal Women
399: Natural Perimenopause Treatment Using Maca Root Powder (What The Research Says + How It Helps Menopause AND Manopause In Men) w/ Dr. Deanna Minich {FULL TRANSCRIPT}
Jennifer Fugo (01:13.187)
Thank you so much for coming back on the show, Dr. Minich. I really appreciate you being here to talk about, among other things, maca root benefits (e.g. as a potential perimenopause treatment).
Deanna Minich (01:19.022)
It's great to be back here with you, Jennifer, and I feel like this is going to be a very robust conversation about all things maca and hormones.
Jennifer Fugo (01:26.859)
I know, last time we talked about melatonin, which was an amazing, amazing, I would almost say like, I just felt like my brain was exploding every time you kept going deeper and deeper into that. And then you had mentioned to me afterwards about maca, and that you actually know quite a bit about it, and it really ties nicely into a lot of the research that you do. And I thought, that's a great topic to talk about because I've never talked about maca, especially as a possible perimenopause treatment or as part of one’s perimenopause supplements. I think it applies really well for those of us who do have hormonal concerns, as you shared, because, thanks to you, I've been doing a lot of reading, like one paper in particular, which I'll link up, that you wrote about maca.
I have learned a lot, that there's a lot of things that you really need to know before you make a decision of what you're gonna buy. And that might partly explain why, if you just go and buy maca powder at the grocery store, you might not notice any change at all. So for those who do not know what maca is, can you share that? Give us a little maca root powder 101.
Deanna Minich (02:34.572)
Yeah, that's a great place to start. And let me just say too, based on what you just said, you may not have any effect of the maca powder that you're buying, but you may even have adverse effects of maca because of potential androgenic effects in women, where you don't really want that. You think of women with PCOS, you don't really want more androgens coming in. So yes, it's best to know your maca.
So let's talk maca. What is it? It's an annual cruciferous root vegetable. Many people don't realize that it's a cousin to the Brassica family. So if you think of turnips and broccoli and kale, they're cousins, so they are all part of the Brassicaceae family. And when we think about maca and where it grows, it grows natively in Peru, and it's a pretty tough vegetable because it grows at high altitude. So it grows typically between 3,500 to 5,000 meters above sea level. So if you think of the Andes, you think of the mountains and all the things that plants are up against. We're talking about wind. I've actually been to Peru, and I have witnessed this, and I was thinking about maca and what these roots go through. So you've got wind, you've got altitude, you've got extreme weather conditions, so you have high heat, you also have bitter cold. And so the microbiome of the soil, the location of the maca and where it's grown, can tell you a lot about its efficacy.
So back in the 90s when maca became known as kind of a Viagra, a plant-based Viagra, you started to see that there were other, I would say countries, other groups taking it and trying to cultivate and grow it in different locations, like in China, but not necessarily having the same outcomes. So we always have to think about, when it comes to a plant, where is its native origin? Where is its location? Because many times location determines the actual phytochemical profile and hence its efficacy.
One of the unique things, and I know we're going to get there, but let me just say it now since we're talking about location, is that when you look at, even within the Symphony line of products, they grow maca for women in a different location than they grow maca for men.
Jennifer Fugo (05:07.138)
Oh, wow.
Deanna Minich (05:15.35)
So location truly is everything. It is everything. So if we look at traditional medicine, because maca is not new, it's actually very old. It belongs to botanical medicine, traditional medicine. If you look at what the native Peruvians used it for, it was primarily for enhancing energy and fertility, so it was seen as something for vigor and vitality. And when I was in Peru, I noticed that in traditional markets, you just go on a Saturday and you can kind of see, they sell maca powder, they sell different colors of maca in a powdered format. I know we're going to get into the different forms like whether raw, gelatinized, but just in general, there is some appreciation of maca in the actual country that it's from. When you look at it in terms of its, well, you know me, I'm into phytochemicals.
Jennifer Fugo (06:02.125)
You are.
Deanna Minich (06:13.238)
When you look at its phytochemical profile, what makes maca unique is that it's got some shared compounds as the cruciferous vegetable family. Like you and I both know about glucosinolates, right? Glucosinolates are used for a number of different things, and we see them traditionally, at least in functional medicine, being talked about for metabolic detoxification. And if you look at maca, maca has nine distinct glucosinolates that aren't shared by the cruciferous vegetables, the ones that we know and love.
Jennifer Fugo (06:36.288)
Oh, interesting.
Deanna Minich (06:42.89)
Yeah. And these have even been studied and shown to have other benefits, like being helpful with what's called acetylcholinesterase inhibition. So in other words, that would help to promote levels of acetylcholine in the brain, which could be connected to things like cognition and memory. There hasn't been a lot of clinical work at all on that yet, but there is some cellular, some preclinical work that would suggest that these are unique glucosinolates.
And then as far as the colors, as it connects to the phytochemicals, what we see and what you saw in that paper that we wrote is that we actually titled this paper, “Not All Maca is Created Equal.” And so in the paper, we talk about the 17 distinct maca phenotypes, everything from, I would say, that the colors are clustered into yellow, red, white, gray, purple, and black. And so each of those colors, and then you have shades of each of those colors. So even within the red, you can see shades that kind of resemble a pinkish color. And just so everybody can think of what maca looks like, it kind of reminds me of the beet tuber.
Jennifer Fugo (07:50.426)
I could see that, that is very similar to, you have a really nice graphic as well. You have a bunch of nice graphics in that paper, which again, I'm gonna link in the show notes. But that was like, I was like, it looks like a combo of a turnip and a beet, just somewhere in between, with these leaves on the top. And it was just very interesting. It was also interesting that the version grown in China looks very different from the iterations of pictures that you showed that are grown in Peru.
Deanna Minich (08:25.454)
That's an excellent point, and that really speaks to why plants grown in different locations will exhibit a different phenotype. It's like people. When you have people from Japan go and live in Hawaii, they exhibit a different interface based on that gene environment dynamic, right? We would expect the same of plants. I like your analogy or that kind of likeness of the turnip meets the beet. And what's beautiful about maca as a plant too, so similar to the beet as you were saying, you've got the tuber, that's called the hypocotyl. From the hypocotyl, you have the roots, the kind of, the stringy roots that go down. And then above ground, you have these leaves. And that's what you're speaking to as well, in terms of how that even looks different in the Chinese maca compared to the Peruvian maca.
And one of the things that I learned from one of the director of research that worked on a lot of the agriculture, is that the traditional growing method of maca in Peru is to take those greens and then to put them back into the soil to replenish the minerals to enable the crop to come up the next year. And there's a certain type of crop rotation and how often they do that. But it's so beautiful to think of how that plant is continually giving.
So when we think of the maca powder, it's actually more the tuber portion. So when we think of the beet, it's like the beet root, the hypocotyl part. And many times in studies, one of the problems is that in the methods section, which I know not a lot of people read, but if you start to go into the methods to understand the clinical trials that have been done on the different kinds of maca, sometimes you see disparate results. And one of the reasons can be because the actual maca part has not been codified and classified within the methods. So are we talking about the root part? And in many cases, you don't even see any color phenotype being called out. So we just have to, I think, again, just have appreciation for the plant, that it can be very diverse and give different effects based on its phenotype, how it looks.
Jennifer Fugo (10:41.305)
It's color, yeah. And the other thing that I do want to mention quickly, and then I think we should talk about some of the health benefits, that, this is something that is well known, it's not like it's a secret, that if you are farming in soil that contains heavy metals, the plants, especially like a root, tuber-type plant, can take up the heavy metals.
Deanna Minich (11:05.678)
Yes.
Jennifer Fugo (11:11.113)
And I did not realize that there is a heavy metal risk if you are consuming maca. So is that a serious, like how big of a deal is that? How concerned should somebody be if they're taking a maca supplement, or they're interested in that? Should we be looking for some sort of certification from a company that at least are testing for heavy metals in the product?
Deanna Minich (11:31.02)
Yes. Absolutely. And we should be thinking about that with all foods, quite honestly. I mean, if we look at this state of the planet and where we're at with the total toxic load, we're inundated, right? So heavy metals, which I like to refer to as toxic elements, because we're talking about everything from arsenic, thallium, mercury, lead, there's a whole spectrum of different toxic elements. And so when those start to accumulate in our soil, air and water, it could affect any food supply really.
So when it comes to maca, yes, we do need to think about that. Hence, where is it grown? How polluted is that area? And so when I think of the Andes and this kind of untouched, beautiful part of Peru where you don't have a lot of human inhabitants, it's going to be relatively pure, but you could still have issues with the metals from mines or other types of industrial areas within a country. So making sure that the maca that you have has been third party tested for these toxic elements. And again, that would go for any supplement. This is just, I think, part of our daily lives. We should be asking that question of all dietary supplement manufacturers.
Unfortunately on the food side, that, you know, it's so interesting to me because many times we hear that, oh, dietary supplements aren't regulated. However, if you look at many of the different testing methods that need to be applied to a dietary supplement, they definitely are at a different benchmark, a much higher bar, than something like food. Because if you go into the market and just wanna buy a maca powder, you're not going to know about the toxic element content.
Jennifer Fugo (13:21.049)
And you might not even know where it came from, because I didn't even know there was a version that is now grown in China, which a lot of supplements and raw ingredients come from China, that are put into supplements. So if you don't know where the maca came from, where it was sourced from, you don't know if the company is, you know, that is a great question that I would probably ask a company. Where is the maca sourced from? Where did it originally grow?
Deanna Minich (13:27.789)
Yes.
Jennifer Fugo (13:48.734)
Because even if you are in a pristine environment, you can't account for what happens in the rain, the rain can pull down heavy metals into the soil. So I just think it was an excellent point to make, something that we go and we see these organic bags of things in Whole Foods and on Amazon, and these different stores, and we don't think anything of it. But this actually, like you said, the color, the heavy metal accumulation, is that in there, is it being tested for, and where is it from are three crucial questions. So that is really, really helpful.
So in terms of, you mentioned how this sort of came to light as this kind of natural Viagra. And one of the cool things that I learned from reading your paper was that this can actually be really helpful for prostate health, because I only really thought it was good for women's hormones, to be entirely honest with you.
Deanna Minich (14:45.548)
Oh really, okay.
Jennifer Fugo (14:47.841)
I did, that was all I had ever heard about it being used for. So the whole amount of research that I looked at about being helpful for prostate was like, oh, that makes sense. But I didn't think of that. So can you share some of the research, or at least can you share some of the things that can benefit from maca that research tells us, it's not like from an old wives tale or something that traditionally it was used for, right? Because we know that. But what does research actually say at this point in time that maca could be helpful for?
Deanna Minich (15:23.458)
Yeah, that's a really good point to start from. And that's where we focused in the article, is it was a literature review of all the many health benefits in the scientific literature. So, me as a scientist, I think in mechanism, because I think if we think in mechanisms, we can understand where it would be a benefit. And what we see there is anti-inflammatory, anti-microbial, potent antioxidant, which we could attribute, to some degree, to those phytochemicals and the color. Chemoprevention, even, there's some work on that, and endocrine modulation, and we are going to unpack the prostate versus women's health.
And it's kind of interesting because there was a main researcher in prostate health, his name is Dr. Gonzales, and he did a lot on prostate and red maca. And then Dr. Henry Meissner did a lot of work with Dr. Gloria Chacón, who was a Peruvian researcher in the 1960s, very cutting edge, who established a lot of the early work on women's endocrine health. In fact, I even have a copy of her PhD dissertation, which was all on looking at different maca phenotypes for women's health. And then Dr. Henry Meissner carried forward that research and continued to do some clinical work on it.
So in the mountains, the other thing to be thinking about is sometimes we hear about maca in the whole world of endurance athletes because of its role in chronic mountain sickness, altitude sickness. In fact, when I was in Peru, I'm one of those people that is very subject to that. So thinking about using maca in that way, obviously reproductive function, even osteoporosis, there are some interesting, I would say some exploration in that whole area. Your interest is skin and there's even some application to skin health, I would say that has been proposed more along the lines of looking at UV radiation. And perhaps it's because of the plant and where it grows, and being that it needs to create phytochemicals to protect it from solar radiation, to have that right amount.
Jennifer Fugo (17:36.312)
Yeah. And it's interesting, I was looking at a few papers of the, gosh, it was like some sort of preparation that was done to potentially use maca topically for it's possible, and I'm using this very loosely, but possible skin whitening properties, and inhibiting the production of melanin, and different things. I just thought it was interesting. I'll link up the paper in the show notes if anybody's interested, but I don't know that they can say for sure that it's really great for somebody with eczema, or psoriasis, or anything like that. But it was interesting.
Deanna Minich (18:19.648)
It is interesting, and I think that there has been some exploration with different colors of maca and looking at, whether it's oral intake, like you said, topical. I'm smiling too, because the initial work on melatonin was looking at melatonin as a skin lightening agent, which is why it was named mela-tonin, because it was thought to be connected to melanin.
Jennifer Fugo (18:36.642)
Interesting.
Deanna Minich (18:44.346)
A dermatologist from Yale was looking into it in 1958 for that reason, but soon came to find that there was no skin lightening. So I just want to make sure everybody knows that.
Jennifer Fugo (18:53.305)
So with a lot of these, I think it would be great to understand the difference between what's happening for women, so in the women's camp, we have obviously pre-perimenopause, so before that phase, perimenopause, and then menopause. How can that potentially be a helpful perimenopause treatment, versus for the men who are struggling with prostate issues? And how does that, is there any tie-in, that you're aware of, to the modulation, potentially, of sex hormones in those groups?
Deanna Minich (19:32.354)
I love this topic. Yeah, this is so intriguing to me because for years I've been focused on the endocrine system is kind of our psycho-neuro-endocrine superhighway within. And if we can understand how to modulate the endocrine system, we can understand how to modulate communication in the body. We even talk about that in functional medicine, that endocrine is communication. So it's powerful because it oversees neurotransmitters, hormones, and such. So when you're talking about sex hormone modulation, the prostate, which actually I include as part of the endocrine system, because the prostate is a gland.
So if we just think of, collectively, all of these endocrine glands, whether it is the pituitary gland, the pineal gland, thyroid gland, we have the ovaries, the testes, and we look at something like perimenopause, menopause, postmenopause. What is happening, exactly, is that we're not just talking a very simple estrogen deficiency, right? And I think that a lot of talk on social media is just pigeonholing menopause and perimenopause into, okay, your ovaries are just going kaput, you're losing estrogen and progesterone. I think it's much bigger and broader from a functionality perspective, that menopause is the declining function of the endocrine system. So that's why for some women the tip off is more the thyroid. It might be more the adrenals, where all of a sudden she starts to lose energy in her 30s and she can't explain why, and no doctor can really kind of get into the root.
So if we look at root cause approaches to menopause, I would say we need to nourish the endocrine system. And one of the beautiful things about maca is that we know it to be an adaptogen, and you read that in the paper, I'm assuming you saw that section, right?
Jennifer Fugo (21:23.885)
Yep.
Deanna Minich (21:49.836)
So we know that for sure, that maca belongs to the suite of botanical adaptogens, but it has other functions that other adaptogens don't have, like what you're asking about, which is helping with ovarian health. So one of the particular formulations that is tested and in the literature is called Maca-GO. The G-O stands for gelatinized and organic, but it's just the nomenclature.
Jennifer Fugo (21:53.222)
Interesting, okay.
Deanna Minich (22:19.298)
Yeah, it's just the nomenclature that all of these phenotypes in this particular ratio that was studied by Dr. Meissner in animal studies, he found this modulation that was very gender-specific. And when certain phenotypes of maca were put together, it was able to modulate the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid-adrenal-ovarian axis, to the point that you could modulate things like FSH, LH, estradiol, so E2, we're not just talking estrone, which we typically see with menopause. We're talking about estradiol, the active bioavailable form, the bioactive form of estrogen in the body, as well as progesterone.
So he codified this blend of very specific phenotypes, which is proprietary, and that was studied in four clinical trials, looking at perimenopausal women, and also looking at early postmenopausal women. And there were different, this is what is also really intriguing from his research, that there were different phenotypes for perimenopause than there were for postmenopause. So there was almost this life stage modulation of hormones in a woman and what health benefits were desired based on these different maca phenotypes.
So we can unpack that a little bit. As far as prostate health, there is some exciting work that has historically been done with Dr. Gonzales's research. So he's heralded, again, as more of the men's health expert. And in a lot of his research, it kind of mixed findings in some cases. So much depended on the specificity of the color of the maca, the preparation of it, and in the paper, again, one of the critiques that I had, along with my colleagues that we wrote together on, was that many times a lot of these types of maca preparations were not spelled out. So in some cases, you would find an effect on prostate, and then in some other studies, you may not find an effect.
But one of the unique features phytochemically that we see with enhancing sexual function, especially in animal models, and also helping with prostate, would be some of the unique phytochemicals in maca like macaenes, macamides, and there are certain fatty acids within maca that seem to be modulatory. And also Dr. Meissner, even though he was more specialized in women's health, he also did a prostate study and was looking at different phenotypes of maca. And even though Dr. Gonzales focused on certain aspects of red maca, what Dr. Meissner had found was that it seemed like black and red maca phenotypes, certain ones, and if I send you that publication, because it just came out like a couple of months ago.
Jennifer Fugo (24:51.941)
I would love that. Yeah.
Deanna Minich (24:53.386)
Because they looked at the size of the tuber, that made a difference. So it wasn't just the color, but it was also the size of the tuber, like if it was small or large.
Jennifer Fugo (25:01.543)
Oh, my goodness. So it's like you're really getting into the weeds with how you're picking your particular tuber, your maca tuber.
Deanna Minich (25:12.546)
Yeah, in essence, yeah. And I wish that more people looked at the plant signature and how it looks, what it contains. Because quite honestly, Jennifer, we see this throughout the botanical, I mean, there's an appreciation of it for people who understand herbs, right? But I think for the most part, when people go to a grocery store and they see apples, you know, there's a lot of difference between a red delicious and a golden delicious, even though they're still an apple, right? So we need to think the same with maca.
Jennifer Fugo (25:37.943)
Right, yeah. And I thought, the one thing I did think was interesting from your paper, so for those of you who go to look at it, you'll see some of the different things that maca can help with. And thank you so much for also adding in all those citations with each thing, which is so great. And it helps, I think it just makes it easier for people to find the actual references for where we're getting these ideas from.
But just for the guys to know, I feel like prostate hyperplasia is a huge problem. We do see that sometimes, even in our clients. They may have skin issues, but they come back in their 40s and into their 50s starting to have these issues, and they don't know why this is happening. I think we kind of sometimes assume it's potentially cancerous, or a sign of pre-cancer, it could be an infection, it could be inflammation, there's so many things. So I love the fact that what the research is potentially pointing to is that maybe this can be possibly helpful with that.
Deanna Minich (26:37.036)
Yeah.
Jennifer Fugo (27:04.067)
Even sperm quality. And you mentioned osteoporosis, and for women, helping with potentially menstrual cycle regulation and reducing some of the perimenopause symptoms, as well as potentially some menopause symptoms for women. Like I thought that was just really fascinating. And I wanted to ask you, because I did not know this, but in your paper, you mentioned something about the phytosteroids. So there's a specific group of different phytosteroids that are found in maca that you said are, quote, structurally and biochemically related to cholesterol and steroid hormones such as estrogen, testosterone, and progesterone.
So, okay, me, I'm perimenopause. My cholesterol now is a little wonky, it's gone higher all of a sudden, I know this is like a trend. Does this mean that it would be a helpful perimenopause supplement treatment or perimenopause supplements, or is that what it's helping, to fill the pool to then, I mean, I don't know if you know this. I'm just, this is like really cool, because I'm thinking to myself, wow, is this potentially helping to fill the well, the precursors, so that your body can make these hormones? And how does that play in, if you do have high cholesterol, does it matter? I don't know. What's your thoughts?
Deanna Minich (27:59.074)
I've never had that question before and I love it, and I love the fact that it's personal for you, and in fact I need to send you some FemmenessencePRO PERI, which is the formulation for perimenopause, to have you try it. What we know is that, especially in looking at the Maca-GO, which is called Femmenessence, is that we see an 84% success rate with reducing menopausal symptoms. And to your question about these phytosterols and is this going to contribute to high cholesterol, what we've actually seen in the clinical trials is that triglycerides come down, HDL cholesterol goes up, LDL cholesterol and total cholesterol start to come down or at least normalize. So we are seeing the benefit of maca.
And keep in mind that no plant, especially the maca preparation, it's not just phytosterols. In fact, if you think about it, phytoestrogens, these plant-like estrogens, which maca doesn't have per se, it doesn't work like a phytoestrogen, it's truly modulating the endocrine circuit. It has a different type of mechanism. But those phytosterols, which are in plants overall, may actually be very protective. They seem to have some immune effects, and they, like you said, they have kind of this sterol-like structure. So they may be modulating through that particular phytochemical as well. But all I can speak to is the clinical research and what we saw with total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, benefits and improvements in HDL cholesterol. So I think that it's definitely helping to normalize and regulate whatever is connected to hormones, which would be lipids.
Jennifer Fugo (29:45.005)
Yeah, that is definitely one of the biggest questions. Like, I got my blood work back. Last year, fine. This year, I'm like, what on earth? So it's something that is, it's a shared experience with my now fellow perimenopause women that I'm like, what is going on? So that is really fascinating. I think one question I would have, and I think other women would have this, and maybe even men who are doing testosterone replacement (manopause). So for women who are doing HRT, any type of estrogen, maybe testosterone, and some progesterone, is there any contraindication between taking maca and doing HRT that you know of, that you've seen in research? Or are they okay, do they play well together?
Deanna Minich (30:29.56)
So the Femmenessence products have been out since the early 2000s. And so what we hear from clinicians, and again, we have a medical team and we hear all kinds of feedback, it plays very well with HRT. In fact, if you think about it, it's almost like you'd want to sequence your approach where it's like, okay, let's optimize my endocrine system, because it's obviously declining. Estrogen levels are going down, progesterone is going down, lipids are changing, so let's see if we can reestablish some of that communication in the body from a function perspective. Very consistent with functional medicine. Get that working to its optimum, and then looking at the gap. So doing whatever you can to bump up those estradiol levels, bump up those progesterone levels, and then if somebody is still symptomatic, then bringing in some HRT to kind of fill the potholes if needed.
However, and I know that you're very mechanistically minded, so I'm going to mention this because I think it's of interest, because if you look at the clinical trials, we do see elevations of estradiol, but within normal biological levels for that woman's stage of life.
Jennifer Fugo (31:45.272)
Interesting.
Deanna Minich (31:54.392)
Yes, so we see that estrogen levels are supported, we see progesterone levels are supported, not supra-physiologic levels. So some clinicians asked me, they're like, well, Deanna, what happened? I thought that the ovaries are kaput and they're not putting out anything, so how could this maca-phenotype blend known as Femmenessence be changing? And if you look at the mechanism, so where does estradiol come from after you've gone through menopause? How do some women maintain some level, and how could Femmenessence be stimulating the endocrine circuit to produce more? And we see that in two places. One is the adrenal glands, which produce DHEA and androgens, which can then convert into estradiol through the help of certain enzymes. We also see that the depot of estradiol in a postmenopausal woman's body is her adipose tissue. So within adipose, and this is why some women who have more body fat.
Jennifer Fugo (32:51.058)
The belly fat, oh! But look, it has a purpose.
Deanna Minich (32:55.182)
You have to deal with this though, right? Because you don't want so much adipose tissue where it becomes inflammatory.
Jennifer Fugo (33:01.3)
Right, right.
Deanna Minich (33:22.636)
As Jeff Bland would say, you've got happy fat, you have angry fat. The angry fat would be the more inflamed fat. It kind of depends on where it is on your body, too. But if you have a depot of adipose, that becomes your reservoir for creating this estradiol, and that is through aromatization. So you actually have two separate pathways, independent of the ovaries, to start to prime, and to optimiz,e and to bring in certain actives in order to mechanistically help that along. And being that the maca is enriched with glucosinolates, what else do you think you're impacting? Metabolism, the metabolism.
Jennifer Fugo (33:43.212)
I was gonna say blood sugar, et cetera.
Deanna Minich (33:47.416)
Yeah, blood sugar too, that's a really good point. In fact, I’d like to do some studies looking at Femmenessence and blood sugar because we do hear about benefits and how that seems to improve, and just a lot of different markers. Because again, if hormones are communicating to different systems, we're gonna ripple through into a lot of different things.
I just wanna go back to what you said about your cholesterol going up a little bit. So what makes sex hormones in the body? If we go back to our chicken wire diagram that we learned way back when, cholesterol is the mother. And so I think that for some perimenopausal women, they get that initial scare of like, oh my gosh, like we have been so ingrained in thinking that elevations in cholesterol, bad for you. My mother is the same way, she's very post-menopausal. But you know, she was asking me, because her cholesterol has gone up. My response to that, and this is just my biochemical thinking response, is that the body has a way to, again, if you're trying to prime hormones and to balance them, looking at elevating levels of cholesterol to funnel on into that sex steroid pathway to give you the mineralocorticoids, the estrogen compounds, and also looking at the androgens. But you need cholesterol. So in a way you could say, is my body compensating? Should I just let this ride out?
You know, obviously if people have symptoms and they want to quell that and to balance their hormones perimenopausally, because you're kind of all over the place during that time. I remember it. I'm like two years, almost two years post-menopausal now, but I clearly remember my perimenopause time of differences in cycles and just different issues in sleep. And that really led me to start looking into Femmenessence and evaluating, do I do HRT? But there is a lot of flux during that time. So I think just kind of smoothing the signal with the maca phenotypes, in order to enable the body to adjust better. But I do think that women, rather than medicalize the body, I really feel like there's some beauty and art in really understanding and moving through that dynamic.
Jennifer Fugo (36:04.92)
Yeah, I 100% agree with you. I'm like, you know, my doctor wrote me in the portal and was like, what are you gonna do, to cut out of your diet, to reduce your cholesterol levels? And I'm like, okay, hold on. I need to understand whether this elevation is truly as awful as you're saying, like what risk is there from a cardiovascular perspective, and can we run other markers that could help me better understand this? Can we dig a little deeper? And I gave her research and she was willing to do it. So it is what it is. I'm probably, I don't know if I'm a type of patient that doctors don't like, because I'm like, can we try this?
Deanna Minich (36:47.266)
Just think of how many more patients you're helping actually. That's really informing them.
Jennifer Fugo (36:53.938)
I know, that's my hope. But I want to know why. I want to know why is my body having this physiologic response, not just assuming that it's bad. And I think one question I do want to ask you around this, because there's this concern about maca and its play with hormones, what about people who've had cancer in the past that is hormone-sensitive? Do you think, or from what you've read, is this maybe something they might want to be cautious about, or does it seem okay if you're cancer-free?
Deanna Minich (37:26.904)
Well, your question is a good one because I think we always have to look at all sides of the issue. And if you are increasing and changing estrogen and progesterone levels in the body through Femmenessence, then yes, you need to reconsider the use of the product, and/or other types of maca as well. Or at least do that under the supervision of a skilled health practitioner who could monitor you because we know that Femmenessence doesn't introduce any hormones, so you're not taking hormones. This is not like taking HRT. It's enabling the body's endocrine circuit to actually work better, and so you might actually balance certain hormones that could be helpful for looking at outcomes related to that. But yes, in general, I think we need to be very cautious, and to be thinking about that as a contraindication, because you will be modulating hormone levels and hormone levels can change with the use of the product. So, yes.
Jennifer Fugo (38:27.382)
Yeah. So definitely talk to your doctor if you've got a history of that. I feel like too, if you have active cancer, that's such a different story.
Deanna Minich (38:36.556)
Yes, that is a different story. Yeah.
Jennifer Fugo (38:56.278)
There's some things, like even like L-glutamine you should not really supplement with if you have active cancer. There's just so much, it's more complex. Talk to your doctor. So before we wrap up, I did want to ask you the difference between raw fermented versus gelatinized maca powders. What do you think tends to show the best results? Because obviously we know now, country of origin, heavy metal status, as you call it, the phenotype, a lot of these things do matter in potential efficacy. So what is the deal with the form that we tend to see, or the labels we see on these different products?
Deanna Minich (39:16.44)
That's another really good point. It's almost like somebody listening to this could be thinking, my gosh, maca is so complex, how am I going to navigate this? And so whether it's the elements, the metals, the color, the size, all of that, yes, it's true. So you might see out there with raw maca, you have to think about the different phytochemicals that you're getting in the different preparations because that will translate to different efficacy markers.
So, I can speak to the Femmenessence because in the research that Dr. Meissner did, the levels of certain phytochemicals that were responsible for the endocrine modulation were seen with gelatinized maca, with these gelatinized phenotypes. And so in that gelatinized format, you have a little bit more of a water soluble, more bioavailable format, and so that could lead to greater uptake, or at least even greater metabolism, of some of these compounds like glucosinolates. If it's in the raw format, you would have other phytochemicals. And in fact, some of the work on prostate health would suggest that perhaps you need some of the raw maca because of certain of the actives.
So as far as fermented, I don't know as much about the fermented maca, I haven't explored that and I think that that's relatively rare. But what you're doing is creating, again, very similar to gelatinized, more bioavailability. Being that, so let me just mention one quick thing on that, Jennifer, because if maca is gelatinized, such as in the case of Femmenessence, it's going to be more, I would say, more vulnerable or more susceptible to breakdown because it's in a more active bioavailable state, which is why you want to also look at the packaging of maca.
Jennifer Fugo (41:15.014)
Oh, okay.
Deanna Minich (41:27.354)
With the Femmenessence, there is the, I just happen to have a box on my desk here, but it's individually wrapped, so it's protected from oxygen. And so if it's in a big bag of powder, let's just say, again, you go to the grocery store and you get this big bag of powder, actually we could say this about any kind of powders, protein powders, nutrient powders, plant powders. Any time you've got this big bag, this tote, that you're opening and you're allowing oxygen to get in, you can have degradation because you have a lot of different water soluble and light-reactive type of compounds, and once those degrade, you lose efficacy. And we see that with things like vitamin C, as a quick example. So just note that.
Jennifer Fugo (42:01.09)
So I was like, what does gelatinized imply? Because it sounds a little bit like processed, right? Because I mean, I just was like, I don't know what, I think of gelatinized and it's like processed into this gelatin, whatever. Anyway, I thought the fascinating thing that I picked up in your paper was that that process actually is removing some of the starches that are considered FODMAPs.
Deanna Minich (42:25.902)
Yes.
Jennifer Fugo (42:27.434)
So if you have reacted with GI issues because you might tend towards SIBO or have some bacteria that are producing gas within the GI tract, you probably want to lean more towards the gelatinized version because a lot of those starches are removed.
Deanna Minich (42:46.584)
You know, I'm so glad that you brought that up because in general raw maca powder, if I recall it correctly, is about 68% water soluble. So it's very difficult to digest. It's a classic tuber in that way. And gelatinization, even though you're wondering, well, what is that? It's very simple because it's using a certain type of water temperature and pressure in the right amount. So it can't be too much or too little, because that could change the efficacy and bioavailability, and even destroy key actives. So it's just a combination of water, and temperature, and pressure, all in a way that again helps it to be more bioavailable, and can liberate and make some of those phytochemicals that are normally bound up in a lot of those starches more ready to go in the body.
Jennifer Fugo (43:36.428)
Well, one last question, because my fellow non-pill swallowers, because I can't swallow pills, like a five-year-old. There might be five-year-olds that can, I don't know. But for those of us who can't, is it possible to open the capsules and empty it into something, and consume it, say, in a smoothie, or in yogurt, or something like that, so that you can get, like is the capsule protecting it from being degraded with the gastric juices, or is it just a delivery form, and thus taking it out of the capsules won't hurt efficacy, as far as you know?
Deanna Minich (44:13.902)
Yeah, no, I do know this and it has been tested, at least for Femmenessence. It needs to be taken away from food, so on an empty stomach, with 8 to 12 ounces of water, and that is part of the secret sauce of it working correctly.
Jennifer Fugo (44:28.18)
Interesting. Yeah.
Deanna Minich (44:40.182)
So if you take it and you just empty out the capsule into a big smoothie, you start to have more interactions. So remember what I said about that heat, light, and oxygen, you could start to degrade and change some of those actives. And you know, it's interesting because if you go on social media, what do you see? People adding maca to their smoothies.
Jennifer Fugo (44:45.525)
I do see that.
Deanna Minich (45:08.034)
And, you know, coating their chicken with it, doing whatever. I mean, ideally, you want to preserve, at least I could speak again to the actives in Femmenessence, because those are well-defined phenotypes and it is known, from a quality control standpoint, how they interact. So you do want it away from food, you want to have it on an empty stomach, and with water to ensure proper solubility and uptake.
Jennifer Fugo (45:14.049)
So could somebody like me just add it to water, swirl, and like down the hatch type situation?
Deanna Minich (45:20.076)
You could do that, yeah, if you're doing it quickly and you're just taking it in. Yeah, absolutely, now that would work because you're still taking in the water anyway. Like the capsule is not the deal breaker there, it doesn't have to be. But I would say you wouldn't want that sitting around that cup with the Femmenessence in it, and just kind of sitting there and degrading. You want to drink it in short order.
Jennifer Fugo (45:30.529)
Got it. I mean, these are the practical things. These are the questions that we have that are so important.
Deanna Minich (45:45.646)
Yeah, you're a deep thinker. You definitely have read the material.
Jennifer Fugo (45:50.733)
I really do. I like to really understand it, because I know these are the questions that I'm going to get, and these are questions that I would have. So, I so deeply appreciate you putting maca back on my radar, because I think I just was like, I don't know if this really works, and put it to the side. And so I feel like this is a good time to revisit it, especially given the resurgence of interest in perimenopause issues. And this could help the men too, which I think is so great.
Deanna Minich (46:16.355)
Yes.
Jennifer Fugo (46:17.432)
Thank you so much for joining us again. I really appreciate how much energy, time, and passion you put into doing all this research, and bringing all of these ideas to us, and nerding out with me about it.
Deanna Minich (46:35.566)
You know, it's very rare that I'm on a podcast where I get very thought provoking questions like when I'm on with you. It's like you actually did your homework. You read the article. You know the questions to ask, like the deeper dive. So I want to thank you, because you're bringing to the forefront things that, yes, you will get asked later, and it's good just to do your homework when you're on the podcast. So thank you for being, again, a deep thinker and probing. And that really tickles my neurons when I can be more intellectually engaged and talk about the deeper science, because often science doesn't get translated into clinical application very readily.
Jennifer Fugo (47:11.052)
Well, I think this is the beauty of it, that we have conversations like this that help benefit everyone and help them also wade through what is true, what is potentially false, and also stay on top of new ideas, right? Because sometimes we can revisit old ideas, like this is an old, it's not an old idea as in like, rote. It's like an ancient idea, right? 2000 years ago, they were using this. This is sort of ancient plant medicine that we currently can get access to now and benefit from.
And so, I so deeply appreciate your passion for holding space for the plants and the beauty of plants, and all the nutrients that they embody to potentially help us. I will make sure to put all of your links to your website, I know you've got an amazing book, and all the different programs that you offer, into the show notes. And I hope that we can have more conversations like this in the future.
Deanna Minich (48:07.832)
That'd be wonderful, I welcome it. We'll find some other plant to talk about in the future, I'm sure.
Jennifer Fugo (48:11.446)
We will. Well, thanks so much for joining me.
Deanna Minich (48:12.312)
Thank you.
