nervous system regulation

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Most people who need help with nervous system regulation, don’t realize that they need this type of help on their healing journey.

So, have you ever felt like no matter how hard you try, you’re stuck in a cycle of frustration with your skin or health? Maybe you’ve diligently followed every protocol, adjusted your diet, and practiced mindset shifts—yet progress feels just out of reach. It’s not your fault. In today’s episode, we uncover why mindset alone isn’t enough and how your nervous system could be the missing piece in your healing journey.

I’ve long known that surface-level strategies like “positive thinking” or “stress management” don’t actually do anything. Maybe you’ve noticed this too.

So if you’re familiar with “fight or flight” mode, then you likely know that staying in that state for an extended period is problematic for nervous system regulation.

But what’s missing from the conversation is “shutdown”… essentially a third state that is your body’s ultimate protective mechanism—a state that often goes unnoticed because it doesn’t require a catastrophic event to trigger it.

Eliza Kingsford joins me for this episode that is perfect for you if you’ve ever been paralyzed by overwhelm or struggling to follow through with even the simplest self-care steps. Eliza is a licensed therapist who helps people experience breakthroughs using a unique combination of applied neuroscience and nervous system regulation training to guide her clients to permanent change, even if they’ve been struggling for decades.

Because how balanced your nervous system is directly impacts chronic skin issues. This is why learning practical ways to shift your nervous system out of overwhelm and into a state of healing can be a significant step you need toward lasting progress.

Let’s dive in!

Or, listen on your favorite app: iTunes (Apple Podcasts) | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | Subscribe on Android

In This Episode:

  • The nervous system’s role as the body’s “control panel” for healing and balance.
  • What most people don’t realize about “Fight or flight” mode.
  • How nervous system regulation that’s out-of-balance can block mindset work from being effective.
  • Signs that your nervous system is in overload or shutdown mode.
  • The connection between nervous system health and chronic skin flares.
  • Simple tools for nervous system regulation to reduce stress.
  • How to manage your nervous system so it doesn’t hit shutdown
  • Why addressing your nervous system is foundational to root-cause healing.

Quotes

“Your nervous system is your control panel—it governs everything you think, feel, say, and do. Without addressing it, true healing can’t happen.”

“It’s not your mindset holding you back; it’s your nervous system’s ability to handle the load. Without tools to regulate it, even small stressors can feel overwhelming.”

“Mindset hacks won’t work if your nervous system is stuck in a protective state. You can’t think your way out of a physiological response.”

Links

Find Eliza online | Instagram

Get Eliza’s FREE Guide: Transform Your Life by Mastering Your Nervous System

Healthy Skin Show ep. 361: How To Change Your Mindset (So Your Skin Doesn’t Control Your Mood) w/ Brad Bizjack

Healthy Skin Show ep. 368: How To Create A Positive Mindset (Even If You Have A Negative Outlook Right Now) w/ Dr. Sue Varma

Healthy Skin Show ep. 297: Deconstructing Trauma + Chronic Skin Problems w/ MaryCatherine McDonald, PhD

 

371: How To Stop Feeling Overwhelmed (And Balance Nervous System Regulation) For Healing w/ Eliza Kingsford {FULL TRANSCRIPT}

Jennifer Fugo (00:16)

Eliza, I'm so excited to have you here today. You completely blew my mind when I heard you speak all about the nervous system and nervous system regulation. And I remember being like, you have to come on the show, we need to talk about this. I feel like my community could really appreciate and learn from the work that you're doing around this.

So first of all, for those who don't know what the nervous system is, because a lot of people know what mindset is, and they understand, you know, mindset and some of these other terms that I feel like we get stuck in trying to fix things and nothing changes. But the nervous system is really important. So what is that?

Eliza Kingsford (00:51)

I love that you asked that because, I mean, even when I was being trained in the nervous system there's this assumption that we know what that means. And I remember sitting in the room going, is it just me? What do we mean? What are we talking about when we say nervous system? Like, where is that, what is that, right? And so, just high level, when we're saying the nervous system we're actually talking about the brain, the brainstem and spinal cord, so where the brainstem connects to the spinal cord, and then all of the nerve endings, and then sort of the bundle of nerves that comes off of the brain and spinal cord and flows throughout the entire body.

And the reason why that's interesting is because, the way I like to describe it, is that it's the information superhighway. That system, brain, brain stem, spinal cord, and all the nerve endings, that's the superhighway that sends all of the information back and forth between your brain and body. So everything that comes through, all information, all of your thoughts, your feelings, your beliefs, all your aches, your pains, whether it's too hot, too cold, whether you like it, whether you don't like it, if it hurts, if it doesn't hurt, all of that information all day long is being sent through your nervous system, through that information superhighway. So really when you think about it, it is the control panel for everything you think, feel, say, and do in your life, to bring it all the way back to a simple sentence. Your nervous system is your control panel. It controls everything about you, which blew my mind when I learned about it.

Jennifer Fugo (02:42)

And so I tend to think about the nervous system in kind of two states. So we talk a lot about the fight or flight, rest and digest, sympathetic versus parasympathetic. And yet I learned from you, which was a huge aha, because I had to go through anatomy and physiology and all of this stuff that we talk about in my master's degree and all of this education, that there's two parts to this system, but that's not entirely the whole story. So can you talk a little bit about what those are, and then what would be a better way to view this, a more complete way to view the different pieces of your nervous system to better understand nervous system regulation?

Eliza Kingsford (02:58)

Yeah, so Dr. Stephen Porges is the pioneer in this part, or this anatomy, of the nervous system. And his big discovery, and he's been researching this for half a century now, it's been like 50 years, but you know how research goes. First you have an idea, and then you got to get funding, and then you got to research it, and then there's got to be peer-reviewed papers, and then people have to, you know, it takes a long time for something to actually become, quote, mainstream.

So he's been researching this for about 50 years. And what he discovered, and he discovered it through neonatal intensive care work with infants, is that there's actually two branches of our parasympathetic system. And it's really important that we know that because what people know as the parasympathetic is the rest and digest, right? That's how most people know the parasympathetic. But the opposite side, the other branch of the parasympathetic, is actually our shutdown state. So it's called dorsal vagal, but it's our shutdown state. So one side of the parasympathetic is rest, digest, it's where a lot of health and vitality is. But the other side of the parasympathetic state is actually a very protective state, so much so that it is the state that we're in when we are feeling overwhelmed, when we have to leave a situation, when the body wants to take us out of a situation. It's almost, it's severe, it's the path of last resort. And so they're almost polar opposites of each other. One is health and vitality. The other one is I'm in so much danger that I have to shut all the way down. So when we talk about parasympathetic, it's really important to know that there's two sides of that coin.

And so when you were saying, well, what's a better way to describe it? When I'm talking about our nervous system states, I like to think about it as load, as a sort of protective load. And here's what I mean by that. We've got the state of rest and digest where, let's call it health and vitality, right? But then we start to pick up a danger in the environment. The nervous system starts to detect some threat in the environment and it starts to build some energy in the system. So now we've got this load building, we've got some energy going to protect ourselves from whatever it is. And if that load gets to be too much to bear, then we get to a shutdown system. So it's this progression of load on the system, It's similar to an allostatic load. So when we are feeling overwhelmed with stress, the response to that is actually to shut down.

And so a different way to look at the states of the nervous system would be, well, how much load is on the system and how is the system responding? When there's too much load and we can't deal with it, then it will actually shut down. And so it's almost this progression of allostatic load in the system.

Jennifer Fugo (06:46)

So I want to clarify a couple of things for everyone. So first of all, when you say there's this extreme amount of overwhelm and feeling overwhelmed, I can say that, and I know for sure just from going through some exercises, and they were powerful that you had us do in the presentation that I saw, that I have experienced this total shutdown without some catastrophic thing happening. So it didn't need to be like, somebody died, there was a horrific car accident. I literally got to a place where there were just too many things happening and I couldn't, I just went within and it was like several days and my husband, of course, because he knows me so well was like, what's going on? Because you are abnormally quiet, you are abnormally withdrawn, like, your energy is just low.

Eliza Kingsford (07:18)

Correct. Yes. What's going on, that's right.

Jennifer Fugo (07:40)

So I think that's important for people to know. And this is the way my brain is thinking about this, so you tell me if I'm wrong in this. So obviously we have the sympathetic nervous system, which is our fight or flight. So is it sort of like, where if you're in the parasympathetic, the happy, the healthy, like chill, relaxed state, things start happening. Your body starts to be like, ooh, I sense some sort of danger, it could be from food, it could be from an infection, it could be from any number of things. And do we start to transition potentially to a sympathetic state, and then the load gets to a place where you just can't bear it anymore, or maybe you don't have the tools to process it, and then your body's like, nope, and it switches over to that dorsal vagal, shutdown state?

Eliza Kingsford (08:40)

That’s a great way to explain it. And I love that you bring that up actually, because that's another misconception that people have with the nervous system is that fight or flight means someone's actually coming at me and I'm actually having to fight them. Not at all. And that shutdown means that, oh my gosh, it's so much, someone must have died or something catastrophic must have happened. Also not at all. So I love that you brought that up. Yes, when those catastrophic things happen, absolutely, our system responds that way.

However, what you're describing is more accurate, which is that our systems are designed to move back and forth between these states all day long, actually. And so, for example, like you were saying, maybe you wake up, you're going right along, it's a beautiful day, the sun is shining. And then let's just say you get an annoying email, right? Something that is frustrating, a little bit of load in the system,a little bit of frustration in the system, and your system is designed to have that frustration. Maybe you respond and then go back to a more connected and safe state. However, if you keep getting those emails and your day keeps getting, stressors come into the environment, whether that's noises, sights, sounds, like you said are there aches and pains? Is it inside the body, is it something that you ate, are there toxins? Whatever it is. If you keep getting this load on the system and you don't have the tools, or maybe you don't even realize that it's happening because you haven't you haven't done any work to identify your nervous system state. So you don't even know it's happening. You think you're just you know, it's just life, it's just stressful, right? But that is a load on the system. And once your system gets to a point where, man, that's one too many stressors, one too many inputs, whether it be, you know, just a loud noise that takes you over the edge or one more email that takes you over the edge. Over the edge, as you were describing, can be as simple as I'm not talking anymore, I'm shutting down, I can't have the same type of conversation with you anymore.

So it's not always this dramatic, or traumatic experience. It is actually just the way that as human beings we are moving each day through society. And so what you're describing was the progression of your nervous system through a certain level of activation or overwhelm until it said, you know what? That's enough for now, we gotta shut it down because I don't have the capacity to handle what's going on here. And love that you point that out because it's really important for people to understand that it's not a, this is a physiological response from the body, so it's not a choice. We're not talking mental health. That's one of the things that, I'm a therapist, I'm a classically clinically trained therapist. And I don't love the way that we assume that the progression of something like that is about mental health, as in, well, you just can't handle difficult situations or you just can't handle stress. This is about the physiology and the way that our physiology was developed, and the progression of how we move through our different nervous system states. So it is happening for everyone. There are no exceptions. Children, adults of every age, from birth all the way through, our physiology responds to our environment this way.

Jennifer Fugo (12:27)

And is this why someone who, so a lot of my listeners have usually at least some sort of skin issue going on or they're a caregiver, or sometimes they're just interested in this topic. But a lot of times there's some type of personal connection to a pretty chronic, sometimes very life-altering skin problem that could be in conjunction with other comorbidities and other health challenges. And for some it could be like, oh the patches on my skin really bother me, I have some itching, I don't like the way they look. For others, it is, I would argue, depending on the severity, for some it's catastrophic because of the severity of what they're experiencing. And a lot of times, like when I am in these Facebook groups and even in my own community, sometimes there's a lot happening. People may be in a moldy environment, they may be like, also what we consume can also be overwhelming, right? From not just the food, but from an information perspective and the world. We'll just leave it at that. The world can feel very overwhelming. Family issues, personal struggles, work stressors, and maybe not even being able to work.

Eliza Kingsford (13:31)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Jennifer Fugo (13:50)

And some individuals get to a point where they're in a really, really bad place. And a lot of people on the outside just go, oh you have a mindset problem. You're just depressed or showing signs of depression. But is it possible that it's not just, I mean, I don't want to demean or put down a mental health diagnosis by any stretch of the imagination, but there are times when I'm talking to someone and I'm like, your nervous system is like, this is not just maybe a mental health condition. This is almost like, what's going on with your nervous system regulation?

Eliza Kingsford (14:28)

Yes. Well, as you know, as you heard me talk about this, after having been trained over 20 years in classically trained clinical psychology, so diagnoses and everything in between. And then, you know, the few years, the last few years being very well trained in the nervous system, terminology, physiology, how that fits into the clinical picture. And I will say, I can say with confidence, that this was the missing piece for clinical work with my clients because of exactly what you're talking about. Our capacity, our ability to face stressors, to have stressors in our lives, whether that be from a physical condition, or an emotional condition, or the combination thereof, is dependent on the health and flexibility of our nervous system. It starts there. That is where it starts. And by that I mean, sometimes when people will say, well, we just need to do mindset work, just power of positive thinking, things like that. For example, I will tell you that, yes, you're having emotions.

Jennifer Fugo (15:44)

I'm rolling my eyes, because I'm just like…

Eliza Kingsford (15:49)

Yes. All the feels. Because, and I will say, one of the things that we realized when we started using the physiology of the nervous system is that people's ability to access the executive functioning skills, so our ability to access the cognitive skills that are required for positive thinking, there are cognitive skills that are required for positive thinking. Our ability to access those skills depends on which nervous system state we're in. So if you are someone who is consistently activated or shut down, you don't have access to think your way through it, to just change your mindset or even your beliefs at that point. Your nervous system dictates all of that. So until we are in a, we'll call it, so it's your ventral vagal parasympathetic system, that is the scientific nomenclature. And what does that mean? We'll just call it our system of safety and connection. Until we are in a flavor of our system of safety and connection, we don't have access to those thoughts, beliefs, the systems that would allow us to mindset our way out of it. It's not even there.

And we saw this in kids. They have what we dubbed hot system dominance. So they're in this constant hypervigilance. They're in this constant state of activation. And then we would say, well, just try to calm down, or take a breath, or be positive. And they can't do it. And people would think that it's some type of mental health failure on their part. And the research showed us actually, they don't have access to the brain structures, the parts of our brain that light up or that are firing when we have access to that part of the prefrontal cortex that is involved in positive thinking and all that stuff. So I'm using a lot of the scientific nomenclature to essentially say, it's not your fault. If you are in consistent activation or shutdown, to be expected to then just change your mindset is ineffective at best and adding to the problem at worst.

Jennifer Fugo (18:17)

Can I ask you too, I've noticed with some clients when they get to this almost like shut down spot, it's like their nervous system, and this is my interpretation, so if I'm wrong, it's totally okay, but, and you're trained in this, I'm not, so that's why you're here. But it's sort of like they're so highly attuned and seeking safety that they almost become paralyzed, because even the idea of a simple thing like can you just take some magnesium at night so that you can better fall asleep, just even simple steps, or this is the type of skincare that you want to try out or test out, simple directions become an extreme challenge. Is this sort of what you're talking about where someone just really struggles with follow through and can't, over analyzing, really stuck, and then just easy overwhelm, shut down, can't do it and that's that.

Eliza Kingsford (19:24)

Yes, so what I would say is that to me is a sign of a nervous system that is, some people call it rigid or inflexible or delicate or vulnerable, meaning they're, when you say easily overwhelmed, the capacity in their system is so diminished that even the smallest ask or the smallest barrier to overcome, feels to the system so big. And sometimes some of the impacts of a shutdown system, brain fog and a lot of cognitive functioning becomes a lot more difficult in a shutdown state and an activated state. And so in order for people to follow directions, or sometimes even remember the directions that you told them, that's the thing. So, if someone's in a practitioner's office or even on a Zoom or something like that, and the practitioner is giving them instructions for what to do, if that person is in an activated state later or is receiving those instructions in an activated or shutdown state, they may not be able to remember or hold that information or even remember what you said or how to do it.

And so this is why to me, I think you've heard me say, that I think it will be a gift for humanity for people to just understand what nervous system states are, how to identify what nervous system state you're in, and then the impact that that has on your ability to function in life. Because it has such a knock-on effect. You can imagine someone, like you said, take a magnesium pill, and let's say that they are just so overwhelmed or overloaded with whatever's coming into their nervous system, that now they can't take the magnesium pill. And they know, somewhere they know, it's as simple as taking the magnesium pill and I can't even do it. Well, then it compounds, it becomes this feedback loop of shame and deprecation and all that stuff.

Jennifer Fugo (21:32)

Exactly. One thing I think is worth mentioning is that I think the reason that we really struggle to make mindset changes is because the mindset piece, just mindset, is not a root cause problem. So we all talk about, you guys are here listening because you are interested in root cause problems. Your mindset is not a root cause problem. And so if you're listening to people on podcasts and experts telling you it's just your mindset, you gotta do this, here's mindset hacks, all these things, I just think we're looking for a speedy solution at a level that you really can't impact much change. You're almost set up for disappointment and failure. So if we're talking about you start with the nervous system as the physiological, the physical thing in your body, that's the basis, how do we go upward? Because mindset's in there, but nervous system regulation impacts what?

Eliza Kingsford (22:37)

Yes, yes. Well, for me, this is a fascinating pathway because for me, it came out of 20 years of trial and error, mostly error, learning the things that are involved in changing your mindset and then your behaviors. So I know a lot about this, for better or worse. So the nervous system, to oversimplify this concept, the nervous system really is the thing that shapes our beliefs about the world. It's the very first thing that shapes our beliefs about the world because from the very beginning, as soon as we come out of the womb, the nervous system is looking, always, in its environment, is this safe? Should I come closer or move further away? From infancy until the moment we take our last breath, that's what it does. It's its entire job. And so it shapes our beliefs about the world. It shapes what we know as safe, what we know as dangerous, who we like, who we don't like, what we're good at, what we're not. Our nervous system tells us that. And out of that attunement, that shaping, come our beliefs.

So the brain's job was to put words, story, to the physiological experience that we're having. So if we're having a nervous system experience of activation or shutdown, what's the story gonna sound like? The story's gonna sound like, don't do that, I'm afraid. Or go away from there, that's not good. Or that person doesn't like me, I'm depressed. Whatever it is. The story that is going to follow comes out of that nervous system state. So if you're in activation or shutdown when that story is developed, you're going to develop one belief, versus if you're in a safe and connected state, you're going to develop another belief. So our beliefs, then, our beliefs really are the thing that creates our mindset. So just to give a quick example, if you were raised in an environment where you had a critical mother who nothing was ever good enough, and you'd bring home the A and she'd say, why didn't you get extra credit? You start to formulate this belief about how it feels to be in the world. Something like, I'm not good enough, it won't ever be enough. And out of that belief comes your mindset. The mindset of what you can and can't do. So the mindset becomes, I'm someone who believes that everything is possible, or I'm someone who believes that bad things happen to good people. So the mindset comes out of the beliefs, and those beliefs were created first through the nervous system.

So here's where I'm going with this. If we just come in at the level of mindset and say, insert some positive thinking. I can do it, just try harder, there's an opportunity for, I don't know, insert whatever affirmation that someone has told you to say in there. What you're missing is that the brain and body, the combination of your brain and body are so much more powerful than this mindset affirmation that you're trying to reprogram it with, that it is always going to override something that does not fit, that is not congruent with the core beliefs and, let's call it nervous system, of who you are. So if it's not congruent, it's gonna reject it. So we have to work at that root first. And we can realign everything, but we can't skip that step.

And I think the progression of it looks something like this. Nervous system is at the very bottom. It shapes your beliefs and identity, which shapes your mindset, and the combination of those three things shape your behaviors. Your behavior shapes your outcome. So if you're looking to change anything, we can't just change at the level of behavior. I think people will, they'll start to change and say, well, I need to just change my behavior or I need to just change my mindset. It's not deep enough. And oftentimes it ends up creating more of a disconnect because then there's shame on top, and I'm a failure, and why can't I do this, and someone told me to just change my mindset and why doesn't it work for me? There's so much more to it. And I think the biggest takeaway is our bottom-up processing, so that the information that comes from the nervous system and the beliefs to the brain, is so much more powerful than our top-down decision saying, I can just muscle my way through this or mindset my way through this. It doesn't work. We're not more powerful than this thousands and thousands of years of evolutionary biology.

Jennifer Fugo (27:35)

Yeah, so we know now, we've gotta go deeper than the mindset. So if you guys have really struggled with all this mindset stuff, you feel like it doesn't work, I'm right there with you. It's not all that effective. I think for some people, they might be in the right spot where it does help them. But I think for most people, and especially people with chronic illness, I don't think that it's all that helpful. It leads you to feeling like a failure oftentimes. So if we're gonna say, all right, let's go deeper. You have this concept called state first. And we've talked about some of these states. So what is that type of approach that you're thinking of instead that could actually address this sort of more root cause nervous system regulation area?

Eliza Kingsford (28:12)

Yeah. Let's see if I can bring it to life, the state-first approach. So if you were to walk into a coffee shop, let's say, and you were to see someone you haven't seen in a while. Maybe it's someone you went to high school with, and you were to bump into each other. The state of your nervous system, so state first, the state of your nervous system will dictate how you receive everything about that person. The state of your nervous system will change how you see their face, what tones of voice that you hear coming out of their mouth, the words that you pick up on and filter either in or out in the sentences they say, which is kind of wild when you think of it that way.

So here's what's happening, and I won't go too deep into it, but there's a lot of physiology involved. So if you're in a protective state, I'm just going to say protective state, that includes activation or shutdown. So protection will just include all of that. If you're in a protective state, there's parts of your middle ear, there's parts of your senses, what you see, sight, smells, that shift because now they're oriented to a protective response. So your ear is dialed in to hear different tones in my voice. For example, right now, if you were feeling unsafe in this conversation, you would hear different tones in my voice versus if you were feeling safe. And your ear would pick up on different decibels and volumes and tones in my voice just based on the state that you are in.

Now, if you can imagine, extrapolate that, we just talked about walking into a coffee shop and running into somebody you know. Your state is going to dictate everything about how you receive that experience. So you're going to see different facial expressions, different parts of my face differently and all of that stuff, because your body is orienting you to protection or safety. And if you think about it, if it's going to orient you to protection, then hearing soft tones in my voice, and smile lines on my eyes, that's not necessary, right? So it's going to filter all of that out. And it's only going to show you and bring you the experience of me as somebody who is dangerous, or a threat in some way.

Jennifer Fugo (31:08)

Wow.

Eliza Kingsford (31:18)

So when I talk about the state-first living, it is so important that we know what state we're in, when we're in any experience, because it changes how we experience the world.

Jennifer Fugo (31:25)

Eliza, I think, and I hope that this is going to be really helpful for people, because one challenge in my community is that, especially those who have gone, and you don't need to know the condition, but it's called topical steroid withdrawal, and there's a lot of loss of trust with providers who because of, it's hard to describe, so I won't go into it. People who have TSW know you’ve got it, and we have other episodes on it. But a lot of times, there's this massive distrust of the medical profession as a result of what's happened, and their health has deteriorated to the point of sometimes a catastrophic level. And so going to the doctor is really hard, because what I'm hearing is that, it's not excusing, I wanna be very clear here, and I think that's important for people who are in this state to know. That it's not to say that this is all in your head, right?

Eliza Kingsford (32:23)

I always say that. I always make that exact statement that you just made. So yes, you're right on there. Correct.

Jennifer Fugo (32:28)

Right, not all in your head. But is it possible that when you're in this place where you're so afraid, you just want help, like literally, people are crying and asking for help. Is it possible that you could also be perceiving anything from this conversation, anything from like, from the front desk interaction, all the way back to the doctor's visit, to exiting the office?

Eliza Kingsford (33:00)

Yes. Correct.

Jennifer Fugo (33:11)

You literally are also, it's hard for you to kind of process what's happening and it's almost like, I don't know, it's a hard place to be in. I don't know how to describe it, I don't have better words for it. I can feel emotionally how that must feel to be so stuck and lost.

Eliza Kingsford (33:18)

Yeah, you can feel it.

Jennifer Fugo (33:31)

But what would you tell somebody who is really struggling, they need help from a provider, but clearly, they're almost in like a severe, I would say, like the load is really high and sympathetic, or they're literally in this almost dorsal place where they're just like, I can't do it anymore. I can't even go to the doctor. I can't trust anyone. I'm so depressed and have signs of depression. I'm so done.

Eliza Kingsford (33:34)

Yeah. The beautiful thing about doing nervous system work and understanding the state-first approach, and there's another analogy about managing our nervous system bank account, which has to do with load like you were talking about. When you start working with these concepts, a few things happen. Number one, you can recognize which state you're in ahead of the experience. So even just recognizing I'm activated or close to shut down as I'm going into this office, and I know that that means that my experience is going to be different than it would if I felt differently. So even just that awareness helps to bring even just a different interaction in the experience. Even just the awareness can help change it.

And then as we start to work with our nervous systems and understand our states, we also then start to understand how we move from state to state. So there's a lot of tools that we can utilize to help move us out of an activated state or out of a shutdown state. So then we start to brainstorm our tools and utilize our tools as well. When I talk about managing our nervous system bank account, it's just like a bank account balance. It's not so much that we're looking at it from experience to experience. We're looking at it way before we go to the doctor's office. So way before we ever have that appointment, are we putting deposits in our nervous system bank account? Are we building our capacity in our nervous system bank account? Because we know that that experience might be a big withdrawal.

And so this is just one example of how, when we start to work with the nervous system in a different way, it allows us to manage our bank account differently in anticipation of what's coming up. Or perhaps now I've left the doctor's office and I had no idea it was gonna take that much from me. Well, how do I pour back in? Where am I gonna put some deposits in? And so learning the whole state first approach allows us to build what we call capacity and flexibility in our system. So now that when we're met with challenges, we have more capacity to deal with them. So it becomes less of a what's going to happen in my life, and more of a how do I build resilience to be able to face whatever challenges come my way.

Jennifer Fugo (36:27)

I love that. I will also just share, because I think it's helpful for listeners. So again, I got to be at your presentation. I went through some of the exercises that you shared, and I found them to be profoundly helpful. And as a person who's been working with a trauma therapist for the last two years, there was so much insight gained because I didn't understand the shutdown state, and I don't have that experience often, but it has happened periodically. And I didn't understand, not only that it was happening, I could feel myself going there, but I didn't know how to maybe, I don't know, stop it is the right word, but I didn't also know the tools to get out of it. And so I just got left lingering for, I don't even know, maybe two weeks was the most recent incident was probably earlier this year. And I just felt extremely overwhelmed, I didn't know what to do. Like I said, my husband was like, what is wrong with you? Like, this is not you. It was very apparent.

Eliza Kingsford (37:14)

Yeah, this is not you.

Jennifer Fugo (37:40)

So I found those tools and then being able to better communicate when I notice I'm headed in that direction, I can verbalize it and articulate it more clearly so that he can also understand what's happening and what I actually need. Because sometimes people's support that they think is helpful is not actually helpful.

Eliza Kingsford (37:49)

Absolutely. It's one of the most powerful places, is within relationships, that this work is so impactful, the way you're describing it.

Jennifer Fugo (38:13)

Yeah. And so I think this is important work for anybody who hears people talk about nervous system regulation and working on the nervous system. This is what we're talking about. And I want to make sure that people can connect with you because I think the work that you're doing is amazing. And you also have, which would be a great tool for everybody, is the nervous system toolkit. Is that correct?

Eliza Kingsford (38:21)

Thank you. Yeah, it's a PDF that'll kind of give the high level, 101, here's the nuts and bolts, and help people kind of orient to what is this, what are we talking about here? Yes, absolutely we can have that for them.

Jennifer Fugo (38:50)

Awesome. I think that's a great place to start because this is different, right? This isn't about like, how do we hack our mindset, how do we? This is different. This is the root, if you're really serious about root cause work, this is part of it. Especially if your nervous system is super out of whack. I honestly think that people who, the nervous system is so dysregulated, the load as you say, is so great, that if you're really struggling with protocols, and you're struggling following directions, you're struggling to show up in your life, you can't take simple actions, you're afraid of everything. I think at that point you have to go, what's going on with my nervous system regulation?

Eliza Kingsford (39:38)

Absolutely, without a doubt.

Jennifer Fugo (39:50)

And I think, in some regard, the point is you can't really heal, you can't go through the other healing processes sometimes, without actually doing this. So I want to make sure that people can find you and connect with you. So you're elizakingsford.com, and is there anywhere else people can find you?

Eliza Kingsford (39:51)

Yeah, elizakingsford.com is a great place, there's a lot of free resources there. And then Instagram @elizakingsford. I probably should be in more places, but those are the good ones.

Jennifer Fugo (40:06)

Awesome. Well, I hope you can come back sometime, we can dive into this further. And I really, deeply appreciate you for joining me today.

Eliza Kingsford (40:15)

I’d love to. Thank you for having me, this was great.

nervous system regulation