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Ever feel like your healing journey is stuck in a loop of disappointment even as you watch everyone else around you get better? And you wish you knew the secrets or even the mindset of successful clients who get results?
The truth is, lasting relief from chronic skin issues like eczema and psoriasis often requires more than just finding the perfect supplement or diet tweak.
Healing involves so much more than the collective “list of things to do” or supplements to take.
It’s also how you show up for yourself and collaborate with your practitioner.
As someone who’s walked this road both personally and professionally, I can tell you: healing is not linear.
With trust, the right support, and a strategic mindset, it’s absolutely possible to see progress.
Since I work with adults and Jennifer Brand works with parents trying to guide their rashy children through the healing process, we thought that sharing the mindset of successful clients could be really insightful.
In case you’ve not heard her on the show before, Jennifer Brand, MS, MPH, CNS, LDN is a clinical nutritionist who helps babies and children with chronic rashes navigate the journey to healthy skin so they can enjoy a childhood free from disruptive skin symptoms. As one of the most trusted pediatric skin-focused nutritionists, Jen is passionate about helping families get to the root causes of the problem through her unique method called Rashes Be Gone.
Dive in with us now!
Or, listen on your favorite app: iTunes (Apple Podcasts) | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | Subscribe on Android
In This Episode:
- Why mindset and trust are crucial for long-term healing success
- How parents can help their kids overcome setbacks with chronic skin issues
- Why focusing on “one magical fix” can slow your progress
- Common traits + mindset of successful clients
- How to stay motivated when healing feels like a slow process
- The importance of asking for help and collaborating with your practitioner
- The dangers of comparison and unrealistic expectations from social media
Quotes
“The most successful clients are those who view obstacles as opportunities to troubleshoot, not reasons to give up.” – Jennifer Fugo
“We’re not looking to put someone in a bubble; the goal is to make the body more resilient so it can handle everyday challenges.” – Jennifer Brand
Links
Find Jennifer Brand online | Instagram | Facebook | TikTok
Rashes Be Gone Program (For Kids + Babies)
Healthy Skin Show ep. 361: How To Change Your Mindset (So Your Skin Doesn’t Control Your Mood)
Healthy Skin Show ep. 131: Mindset: What To Do When Nothing Seems To Help Your Rashes
374: Mindset Of Successful Clients (Versus Those Who Struggle To Get Results) w/ Jennifer Brand, MS, MPH, CNS {FULL TRANSCRIPT}
Jennifer Fugo (00:43.046)
Jen, I am so excited to have you back on the Healthy Skin Show. Thanks for being here to talk about is functional medicine legit, as well as the mindset of successful clients.
Jennifer Brand (00:48.024)
Thank you so much for having me back. I am thrilled to be here again.
Jennifer Fugo (00:52.558)
So for those who may have missed one of your episodes on the show, can you just give everybody a quick little intro about yourself?
Jennifer Brand (01:00.974)
Sure, my name is Jennifer Brand. I'm a clinical nutritionist, certified nutrition specialist, and a licensed dietician nutritionist. I work with babies and children that have chronic skin rashes, so everything from eczema, hives, psoriasis, acne, rosacea, skin infections, TSW, you name it, chronic skin rash in a child, I can help. And we do that by getting to the root causes of the issue without relying on diet restrictions, skin creams, and other temporary fixes that don't solve the problem.
Jennifer Fugo (01:37.164)
And what most people might not realize is we've known each other for a really long time, like close to 10 years now because we were study partners in grad school. How ironic. I work with adults, you work with kids in the same kind of subspecialty. So it's ironic that we both have this interest… We both have…
Jennifer Brand (01:47.272)
Yes, I know.
Jennifer Fugo (02:00.816)
We both have the same focus, but yet it's on very different populations, which really does serve a purpose because the way you address adults is different than children and than babies. And so it's really important. So we see the gamut. And one of the interesting things why I wanted to have you talk about this today is because you're not only working with a client, but you're working with parents. So there's like an added facet to like what I can share about what makes clients successful (mindset of successful clients) versus those who tend to stumble and maybe they don't even become clients where they're really struggling. I see these folks in my community, but you're also working with parents. And I feel like that adds an extra layer of complexity that I thought would really help people today. So I guess to kind of kick this off, let's start off with some of the things or the commonalities that you might see with a very successful client and maybe the parents as well, this little like unit that you work with kids.
Jennifer Brand (03:12.81)
Yeah, you know, and I am really glad that we're talking about this and I think it's gonna be really interesting because this is not a conversation that we have had with each other yet. So I think a lot's gonna come out of this but and you're right because I yes, I work with the children but in reality a lot of the kids I work with pretty much all of the kids I work with are so young that I really am working with the parents. So I am gonna be curious to learn as well like the similarities because in fact like, you the things that that are going to make my clients most successful and the children most successful in terms of getting lasting relief from what's happening on their skin really does involve how the parent is going to work with me, how we are going to collaborate together to get to the bottom of it for the child. Yeah.
Jennifer Fugo (04:01.808)
But then how they filter it to the child is like a whole other layer that like I don't deal with because I'm usually directly working with the individual. So there's not this like, with you, kind of wonder if it's almost like maybe it's like the whisper down the lane type thing where sometimes, and you're dealing with another person who may be a super picky eater, right? Like, or they don't like certain things or they just don't want to comply because they just don't want to comply. I mean, I don't know. I don't work with kids. But I would imagine that that makes it complicated. Know, so like for someone, if you can think of maybe like one of your most successful clients, was there some aspect of the way that the parents and obviously the way the client shows up is going to depend? Was here a specific mindset of successful clients? Because if it's a baby, they're not like trying, you know, they're just doing their thing versus like a teen. But what are some things that you see in parents that seem to make them more successful?
Jennifer Brand (05:06.154)
So, okay, so as you were posing that question, a client, a particular client did come to mind and it was somebody I worked with a number of years ago. They were successful getting results on their child's skin and the mom was… was very adamant that whatever I recommended was going to happen for the child. So whether or not the child was picky, and this child was a picky eater, but the parent, the mother, was so determined and had that conviction and knew and believed that this was going to be helpful, that she didn't let that stand in the way or intimidate her, if you will. So she implemented, implemented, implemented, worked through whatever the pushback was from the child. And when the parent, and this is something else that I've noticed too, when the parent has that conviction, that motivation, and is really ready to not take no from it for an answer from their child and get it done. Those clients tend to be very successful. Whereas in contrast I can think of another client who just… Same, same type of motivation, because of course, like I know, you want to get to the bottom of this for your child and you are motivated to do it. However, I've seen, for example, with this other client I'm thinking of, again, a picky child and as soon as the child was just like, no, wouldn't take whatever it was, wouldn't eat the food, the mom, okay, I can't do this. So… So a difference in how the parent approaches it. And again, it's like that underlying conviction to want to do it is similar, but there is a difference in the way that those people implement with their child, if that makes sense.
Jennifer Fugo (07:18.62)
So yeah, so what I'm hearing you say, and correct me if I'm wrong, is like you have one parent that has staked their poll into the hill of we will, okay, if this is the way, we're gonna figure it out. Come hell or high water, we're gonna sort it out. We're gonna work through it together. Whereas you have somebody else who's kind of staked in the hill of, well, it depends on how hard this is. And as it… and how hard would depend on, right? And I'm not saying, you know, again, in having this conversation, Jen and I were like trying to like figure out like, how do we have this conversation so nobody listening to this feels like, we're saying, these people are bad clients or we have judgment against them. We're merely trying to just share some attitudes, some actions, some commonalities that make people more successful. And I find we can always learn from that of what helped somebody be more successful versus somebody else. But it does sound like this other person that you're describing, it's like the moment they pushed up, they got some pushback or some resistance, they were kind of like, too hard, too hard, I'm out. Does that sound like kind of what you're describing?
Jennifer Brand (08:32.366)
It does, yes. And you know, another layer of that too, and tell me too, because I would think this is similar with adults, but it's like, the other piece of that is that, you know, when you work with me, and I know you're similar in this nature, like when you work with me, when you work with Jen, you know, we're here to help. We're here for support. That's what you're here for. So also, you know, if you leverage that support, because there are strategies that we can, we can help you strategize, right? So when the going gets tough, that's also a time to ask for help. So also people that ask for help, right, tend to be more successful.
Jennifer Fugo (09:18.49)
Yes, and I will say that I also see the same thing with adults whom I'm working with directly. I've worked with some teens and I am brutally honest with parents before they want to, I'm like, listen. Do you want to do this more than your teen? Because if your teen doesn't want to do this, let's just not. You're wasting your money and your time and your energy. And it's just going to make everybody upset and aggravated because they just don't want to do this. That's ok. I'm here when you're ready. I'm here when they're ready. But it might not be now. And so I agree with you that there's this idea of like, what kind of energy do we hold? What type of beliefs do we hold ahead of time that allow us the ability to see pushback or maybe like you were sharing like a negative reaction like, I don't like this food or I don't like XYZ and you problem solve, you troubleshoot, right? And to try, because the goal is, let's see how much we can take action here. And if we hit a stalling point where we can't go any further, they're reaching back out to you and saying, hey, I need some help. And that's the same with me, right? You were saying asking for help is a really big thing. And it's not, I think to, and we can talk a little bit about like, how do you ask for help?
Jennifer Fugo (10:55.472)
That is like, obviously there are different ways to ask for help and communicate that to your partner. I love that. Like I like to think of my clients like I'm your co-pilot. I'm here to help you. I can't, I'm not the boss of you. I don't think, I mean, I personally don't really want to work with someone who thinks they're the boss of me. Maybe that's just a me thing, but like I don't want that. And I don't treat my clients that way because I like to be in partnership. I believe it's a partnership because I can't come to their house and make them do and implement and hold their hand through every moment of the day. But I'm here if option one that I create has some issues because that can happen, then you come back and we troubleshoot and we refine and we work on it because this person that's stayed to the second hill where they're like, as soon as they hit some feedback or some pushback or whatever it may be, that's like not exactly positive, like they're not getting a green light in whatever way shape it may be. Like you might even say like, “hey I took these things and my stomach couldn't really tolerate it”, right? I started getting diarrhea or constipation or I just didn't feel good. That's all feedback that I need to know because then I can help you troubleshoot. But if you're more rooted in “this didn't work.” I'm just like, don't know what to do, forget it. I'm just not gonna take anything. I'm just not gonna take any of the actions that we worked on together in our session and then show up to the next call having done nothing and not relayed any of that information. The energetic difference is so vastly different because I really think problems are literally only problems because they don't have a solution yet. So it just means we have to like, we're still sorting it out and all the information that you're collecting as this like client or individual going through this process is helpful to your co-pilot of some sort, whether it's Jen or me. So I don't know, like, what do you think about that, Jen, in terms of like… Like providing feedback, do you also find that there's a difference between the person who's like, I'm gonna find a way versus the person who is like really kind of gonna get like knocked off their center with things? Like, do you find that there's a difference in how they're even communicating with you that might be valuable for someone to hear?
Jennifer Brand (13:33.024)
Absolutely, and I completely agree with you. This is an interesting difference for sure and layer with kids, but it's like, so that collaboration and that partnership is so critical. Because as you were saying like that's how we monitor what's happening figure out if what we're doing is working because you know when we start off and I think it's similar. So correct me if I'm wrong with this but when we start off like, know when we first you you come into either of our practices, know We do the intake with you. We do the testing we, create the plan. We have these conversations. We get started and that's what it is. It's getting started so our initial plan is not going to be the end all be all plan, right?
Jennifer Fugo (14:17.498)
No, no.
Jennifer Brand (14:18.388)
It's a starting point. And then, you know, when we run into problems, and I love that you said this, like a pro, and I heard this recently and I don't remember where, so I can't take credit for this, but I don't remember who gets credit. But like there wouldn't be a problem if there wasn't a, a problem can't exist without a solution. So, so there is going to be a solution, but that's why we work so closely together is because we need to figure that out together because we are not there on the ground level with you. We're not a fly on the wall. I've always thought with so many of my clients too, sometimes it's just, I can still tell during our, because we work virtually, during our meetings, even Zoom, can see them, I can see what's happening right here, but I just feel like, I'm like, there's another piece. I'm like, if I was only on the fly on the wall in the other room right now, so I could see something else. And then I feel like there's this other layer and it's interesting with kids because a lot of these little children are so young so they can't verbalize how they're feeling or what's happening. so, you know, so we might see maybe there's a skin flare, maybe there are some bowel changes, maybe this is happening, maybe that's happening. And so this is where that partnership is really critical. And, you know, between the clients who are most successful or not, there has to be successful, there has to be trust in the process and it can be so hard because if your child is flaring and you can't figure out why, is it maybe the plan? Is it this? Is it that? I would say like 98%. At least 98% of the time it is not the plan, you and then we keep having these conversations and this will be an example of why this communication and partnership is so important. I'm thinking of one client in particular, this was just two weeks ago, kids started flaring, you know, we're at a certain spot on the plan where it's possible, not unlikely, but possible. And, you know, I'm asking questions and then it's like, well, yeah, they had the stomach flu last week because, you know, the other kids had it and preschool had it.
Jennifer Brand (16:30.434)
And, yeah, they're also, and so is teething and then there was this and then I'm like okay right so there are so many layers of of things that can happen that can be alarming for parents so so going back to you know that that success you know who's going to be successful the communication, the partnership, trusting the partnership, working closely together, and having that conviction to know that what we are doing and working from the inside out truly is what is going to help and on some level. And I hate to say patience because… It's really hard to have patience when you're struggling with your skin as an adult or when you're watching your child struggle with this. But unfortunately, and again, I hate to say it that way, there has to be a better way to say you have to be patient because that's not what I mean. But it is to realize that we're on the right track. And I think this was a conversation that we had on another time recently. So I'd love to hear more about what you think about this too, but also just… just having that ability to pivot when needed, right? And I think that's critical.
Jennifer Fugo (17:49.34)
Yeah. Well, so one thing that I want to underscore or echo is that you kept using the word trust, which I do think is a really important part. If you don't trust any part of the process, especially… So one of the other things that I do know is difficult is that I would say 70% to 75% of the clients that come into my practice have worked with at least one, if not sometimes three to five different functional practitioners and are wondering is functional medicine legit. And so at that point, there's been just in the process, there has been an awful lot of trust eroded that makes it difficult because the person's like, okay, well, I can hold out trust for a period of time, right? Like maybe it's four weeks.
Jennifer Brand (18:44.652)
Yeah. Great.
Jennifer Fugo (18:46.406)
But if you have a massive problem and multiple problems, right, let's pretend just for the sake of this conversation that the individual has thyroid imbalances, like significant thyroid imbalances that probably require or at a point that might require medication treatment. They have phase two liver, like really, really bad phase two liver detox. It's never been addressed, even though they've tried other protocols because nobody ever prepped their liver appropriately. They've got a lot of gut stuff. And it's not just like, I have leaky gut, right? Because that seems to be the catch-all. They’ve got H. pylori. Maybe they have SIBO and they've got fungal overgrowth and by the way, I think you might have parasites because of XYZ. So you have a lot of things going on. And on top of it, this is an issue that goes back. So this is where it gets complicated for me because I work with adults. Some of these individuals have had problems since they were a baby and they may now be in their 50s or their 60s. So I am literally having to work through decades of issues. And issues that were oftentimes not addressed appropriately or expectations were not set appropriately with other providers that they worked with.
Jennifer Fugo (19:56.872)
And so now I'm butting up against times, you know, where it's like, well, I should see some magical improvement within four weeks or else I'm going to bail. And it's like, I can't ever guarantee that. I'll be really straight with you. I have, I think… I think that's where you have to feel like … The question then becomes, how do you trust? How do you trust the process? How do you trust your partner when over the years you've invested a lot of time and energy and you've not seen results or gotten worse or been told that nothing was wrong after you've had like $3,000 or $4,000 worth of testing done, how can you trust? And so I think one of the big things is number one, looking for, because I think about like, when thinking about what is functional medicine, if I was to go to a practitioner, because I deal with this too, right? Because I just know that there so many challenges within the functional and integrative medicine space. So I want to look for somebody who is consistent, who I feel like a good rapport with, that I like the way that their brain thinks about things and I like the way that they talk about things and that they explain things to me and answer my questions so that I understand where I am.
Jennifer Fugo (21:30.448)
I don't necessarily need to like have every clinical detail, you know, explained ad nauseum because obviously there's some things like I'm like, okay, I don't necessarily need to know all of this, just give me like the nuts and bolts, what do I need to do? But they also can create an action plan for me that I can do. Like I have literally worked on my own health with other nutritionists, because I, you know, sometimes it's nice to get an outside perspective. And I literally will tell them, hey, I just so you know, I'm like a five-year-old can't swallow pills. So whatever this protocol is, I need you to take that into account. And they will just hand me a laundry list of stuff, most of which you can't take outside of a capsule. And I've gone back to them and been like, what do I do with this? And they're like, I don't know, you're gonna have to figure that out because I'm not really specialized in it.
Jennifer Fugo (22:36.56)
I'm like, like, are you serious? then I am spending all this time and energy fixing a protocol that they made for me that I can't do. So I think what I have learned in my own journey is that if there are certain aspects of qualities of the person that you really want to look for, you also want to look for training. What type of training do they really have and do they really have an understanding of what is functional medicine? Because it's very easy now for everybody to be like, I'm a functional practitioner. That doesn't mean anything anymore. And then, like I said, getting to know that individual and seeing that there is a consistency to the way that they show up in their personality and that they explain things to you in a way that makes sense and that your personalities make sense. You know, aside from that, I mean, if anyone is ever guaranteeing your results, they're like, yeah, 100% of our clients get better. I'm just… I have flat out told people, and I'll tell people here on the show, I don't have a 100% success rate. Like, a, there's so many things that can go wrong because like I have one client who got food poisoning three times in like six months. And it was not his fault. Like I couldn't control that. You know, sometimes life happens.
Jennifer Brand (23:47.842)
Great. Thank you.
Jennifer Fugo (24:01.054)
And it just is what it is. Or sometimes somebody gets so far and then something happens and they disappear. And then they come back a year later and they're like, sorry, I ended up going through a divorce. I just couldn't, it wasn't you, it was me that I need to kind of start over. But like for you, like what do you think it means to really like that trust piece? Like when you talk about that, what do you think that that means?
Jennifer Brand (24:17.368)
Yes. I mean, I definitely echo all of the concepts that you just shared around trust. And, you know, in a similar fashion, so many of the clients that I see, I do tend to be that person that people find after they have tried other approaches, other, you know, functional approaches, they've done the functional testing. So it is interesting when these people first come into my practice, well, and I start talking about some of the pieces of my approach and some of the most critical parts of the journey. Well, I did that already. Okay, well, let's talk about how that was done. And there are holes in there. So… So that trust piece, I think really is critical. And I think a lot of it really is. And I tell parents, like, parents have their parent gut, their mom gut, their dad gut, you know? Like, listen to it, right? I think that really is key. And it is important to find somebody that you do feel. And I don't know that we can quantify.
Jennifer Brand (25:41.514)
Like because I know what it takes for me to feel like I can trust somebody right and a lot of that it is about You the information they have out there like you mentioned the qualifications, you know Do they have the experience the expertise, know with what I'm looking for? Because it you know what we do with skin and with our populations is very specific. Kids are different from adults. Kids with skin rashes are different than kids with allergies and kids with this and that and the other. So I think looking for somebody that does have experience with exactly what you want to have solved or get help with is really key. And then, you know, spending some time, looking through that person's stuff. Most of us out there nowadays have free resources, check them out, see if it resonates with you.
Jennifer Fugo (26:36.156)
Yeah, Instagram, YouTube, mean there's, yeah.
Jennifer Brand (26:38.134)
All of it. Because I think another key piece of that too is like, I don't want to bring people into my practice who aren't a good fit for us to work together. Because it does go both ways. Like, I want to help absolutely every single child out there that's struggling. But at the same time, I know not every single person and every single one of them is going to be a good fit. So, you know, I want it to be a good relationship both ways.
Jennifer Fugo (26:48.518)
Yeah.
Jennifer Brand (27:08.088)
To go both ways.
Jennifer Fugo (27:08.956)
Yeah. Well, Jen, and you and I both have very distinct personalities. And that's why I say, like, sometimes personalities can really, like, butt heads. And I know, I'll never forget, I remember it was the way I had talked about some food, something with food, and somebody was like, that is so triggering to me. And I was like, that was the first time, this was years ago, and I was like, I didn't realize that the way that I described this particular situation would be triggering to a particular individual. And that was the realization at that moment that I really couldn't actually help everybody, that I had to find the right people, the clients that… Like we get on the phone and I'm like, how's your family? How's, like, I like to actually know the people that I'm talking to. Cause I genuinely not only care about them, but I care about the people around them. And I want it to be like, you know, I tell my, the folks that are in my group program, I'm like, imagine we're sitting in this room on big couches, like in comfy clothes, just like hanging out and we're having these conversations, right? So like, really relaxed and like, that's how I want. That's the level that I like to be with.
Jennifer Fugo (28:24.186)
But like, there's some people you meet in life and you can totally do that. And then there's other people you're sitting there you're like, this is uncomfortable. This is awkward, right? Like it's just not a good personality fit that can erode one's ability to even be honest in a session because you might think the person is like judging you or that you're not being “perfect enough” for them. And so what you're describing isn't entirely accurate. And that's really hard because I want somebody to know that I'm not judging them. I'm here, right? I mean, and like, people tell me some things. I'm sure you hear stuff, at least the little kids don't have to tell you this, but like some people are like, I don't want to tell you this because it's really disgusting. And I'm like, it's totally fine. I have probably already been told this by several other people at this point in time. I'm not going to judge you. I'm not going to laugh at you. I'm not going to do any of those things because like I am just listening to try to like pull out of my brain all of the different connections that need to happen to help you.
Jennifer Brand (29:41.378)
You know, that is interesting because that would be something that, because thinking about it, like, some of the kids that are a little bit older, you know, because a big topic of conversation, what are your bowel movements like? Parents have no problem, I have no problem talking about that with anyone. Parents don't really have a problem talking about it. But sometimes when the kids are a little bit older and they're like, like they don't wanna talk about that, right? So there can be some of that, but yeah, but that would be an interesting difference because for the most part, I think, you the parents that I work with are, here's what's happening. This is what's happening. You know, I get pictures of poop all the time sent to me and like, this out. Is this the right color? What is this? You know, is this a parasite? I'm like, not sure, you know, or, but yeah, so it.
Jennifer Fugo (30:05.732)
Yeah, yeah. I know. All sorts of things.
Jennifer Brand (30:30.986)
All sorts of things that we have seen, yes.
Jennifer Fugo (30:33.7)
All sorts of things. And I wanted to ask you too, one of the biggest challenges, because I do think this is worthwhile, of patterns that tend to hold people back. So, one of the things is, and this I don't, we don't see as much in the practice because obviously we're having conversations and whatnot, but I think it's worthwhile saying just because of the interactions I have on social media and then conversations that are had within like my group program and whatnot, is like looking for the one thing that they've just been missing that's like gonna be the thing to flip the switch to get everything to like go away and then the disappointment when the one thing, like I think the other week I was reading questions through my group, my group community, and they were saying like, hey, this practitioner, you know, a couple of years ago found this thing on my stool test and I thought it was gonna be the thing. They treated for it. The testing came back saying it was gone and my skin hadn't budged. And I was so utterly disappointed because I really thought that that was gonna be the thing to like, you know, fix it. And so do you see that with parents a lot as maybe a potential pattern that isn't quite as helpful?
Jennifer Brand (31:59.574)
Yes, I totally agree with you and I'm glad that you brought that up. And I think one of the places I see that, well, we can talk about the various types of tests that are out there too, because I don't know if you get, well, we'll go on to that next, because I'm curious as to what you see in that realm. But I do, know, a lot of parents and I think probably people in general that you deal with as well, but like the one thing, okay, well, I've been working on the gut, that didn't solve the problem, so this isn't gonna work, or detox, right? Because that's another, as you mentioned, that's another big aspect of it too, which is very different in kids, so everybody listening, remember that. You don't want to do the same thing that you do to detox adults as you do in kids. But like, so it's kind of like people are searching for the one missing piece. And in reality, there is not one missing piece. There are multiple pieces that… potentially one in particular has been overlooked or not addressed, it's usually more than that. But let's say just for example sake, one piece hasn't been, maybe that is a key, but you can't just do that in and of itself. There are lots of other pieces that need to be accounted for. So maybe this is a main piece, but if you're only doing this, let's say, okay, you did the gut test and you're working on the leaky gut. Well, that's not gonna solve the problem.
Jennifer Brand (33:28.44)
It might be a piece of the problem, but there are lots of other things going on with the gut just there. And then in addition to that, even if you did have like the absolute perfect protocol addressing all of the stuff that's happening in there, there's still other things you need to do. There's still another set of root cause issues. And in particular, kids are like these particular buckets that I work in with my clients. And then a bunch of other things fall under these buckets, right? But so just to kind of give a sense, like there are these other pieces that you have to work on. And then this is where that partnership and the trust come in too, because the person that you're working with, you want them to be able to, number one, listen to you because again, your mom got your own gut, you know, whether you're adult, parent, whoever, you do have a sense of what's going on with your body, right? So you want to work with somebody who's going to listen to you because those are key clues. You also want somebody who can understand the underlying pieces of, in our case, we're talking about skin issues and then for me, skin issues in kids. So you want to take all of those things into account and that person that you're going to trust to help you also needs to understand the other pieces and then help you pull those out of your own case, right? And figure out the details of your own case because everybody's different.
Jennifer Fugo (34:54.32)
Right, and some things impact other things. Like there's consequences if the reason, look, is it possible? Is it possible that there could be just one reason? Sure. But to be fair, if you've been doing this for quite a while, it's probably not one thing. And if that's what you're waiting for, you're likely gonna be disappointed. I tend to tell people, I'm like, hey, let me just level with you. I know it stinks to hear these things, but I want to be honest because there's so much heartache and disappointment when you look at social media, all of these individuals share what their win is. Oh, I did this and then this happened. But if you really ask them, a lot of times they did a lot more than the one thing that they think actually fixed it and that they shared. And that's where it becomes tricky, right? So the one thing, the problem with the one thing is you are saying, 100%, it's like, well, if I fix my liver detox, if I just, like an adult, well, if I just get my phase two liver detox running, then everything should be fine, right? No. The reason is that the problem that caused the overload is still there. We have to address the overload to then deal with the original problem that caused it, which sometimes could be environmental and oftentimes there's a significant component to it. There also can be nutrients, appletions that are in this arena too. So now we got three problems. mean, like, and sometimes there's subcategories of problems within the buckets, right? Like you were saying.
Jennifer Fugo (36:32.514)
And so you have to allow for time. And I would just like to say, because I've really thought a lot about, you and I both have had health issues over the years. I thought that back in 2008, I was like, I'm sensitive to all these foods. I'm just going to take them out. And I was like, look, I'm better. I was sharing before and after photos of myself, because I did actually look quite different. But I thought I was healed. I was like, I'm better. And guess what? It is now. Fourteen, sixteen years later, and now I'm seeing how much of my journey was like an onion. I would peel away one layer to reveal something else. I'm not saying that anyone should expect their journey to be sixteen or twenty or thirty years, but I oftentimes think that for those who are like, I've got four to six weeks max and then I bounce, I'm not going to stick with this. I'm not going to you know, continue to, like you said, of trust the process or trust that container that they've really selected for themselves. If that's the math, I mean, it is a journey. I've worked with some clients for two to three years. I mean, I can't, I had no idea it was gonna be that long. I honestly would have preferred it not to be. I even tell them on the phone, I'm like, listen, I would much rather talk to you on a friendly basis of just like, hey, what's going on? How's life? Then us continue to have this conversation. Because I would love to see you just out there living your life and this not being an ongoing issue that we're still unraveling. But I think it's really, it's that mentality of the one thing and thinking that this next detox, this next protocol is gonna be the game changer that you magically see your skin clear up. It's so pervasive because of social media. That's one of the biggest things, one of the biggest beliefs that I see that actually holds people back from being successful.
Jennifer Brand (38:43.662)
I agree with you there. I definitely do. And I think… Like I mentioned, know, patience earlier on, right? And again, and I like the way that you said it, it's more like expectations versus patience, right? Like the problem didn't happen overnight. Of course with children, sometimes it seems like it did, because sometimes it does. It just starts. And you know, I think with kids, it is an interesting opportunity because in my clients, I do see people get some results and pretty decent results, like usually within four to six months, but not everybody for sure. I do have a lot of clients that I work with longer than that. Sometimes I have clients and it happens faster than that. Sometimes they do really well and then we're like four to six months in and then it just gets stuck and then we, you know, so everybody is totally different and it is, it's like peeling back the layers of an onion. And, you know, there's so many nuances with this type of work and so many things that are outside of anybody's control. You know, you as a parent, you as somebody, you know, an adult struggling with their skin, us as practitioners working to help you. Like, one of the things that I like to let my clients know is that, you know, with this work that we're doing and when we're talking about what's happening on the skin, generally, you we can kind of boil this down to like inflammatory processes in the body, which a lot of things can cause this inflammation and that drives, you know, an underlying driver for what's happening on the skin. And, you know, that comes from immune system dysregulation. Like we get inflammation when our immune system's like freaking out about various things. And so, you know, my approach with my clients isn't necessarily to make everything perfect and, you know, put somebody in a bubble and live in a bubble. No, what we're trying to do is pull out as many of those pieces like we were talking about as possible and find the biggest pieces of that person's puzzle and work on them collectively. Because it's kind of like, I do this for my clients. So we have all these imbalances and then we have your body, your child's body. What we're trying to do is bring this down work on that person's immune function and help them become more tolerant, more robust, so we find that middle ground like a balance, right? Because for the rest of any of our lives, things are gonna come at us from the environment, from wherever, like things that we can't control. But what we can have more of, and yes, we can work on these and knock them down, but I also don't think, this will kind of be like a little segue, then I'll bring it back, but like, you can only, I don't wanna see orthorexia.
Jennifer Fugo (41:25.083)
Right.
Jennifer Brand (41:40.498)
Like, you know, so many people, like we go down taking the food after food and being so healthy and all of this. And I will tell you, like 99.9 % of my clients, by the time they come to me, they're on super clean diets. That's not the issue. They've rehomed their pets, still have problems. They've done the allergy testing. They've done all of this. They've done everything and they're still having problems. We need to look inside, right? We need to make your child's body, your body more robust and figure out why it can't handle these environmental things that are actually fairly normal for most people, right? So it's like, we've got to work on your system, that system, find those imbalances to support it and make it more robust to handle all of this, because this is always going to be happening. And in today's day and age, this is not getting any better.
Jennifer Fugo (42:27.12)
Yeah.
Jennifer Brand (42:33.912)
is it?
Jennifer Fugo (42:34.498)
No, and so for anybody listening to this episode, I will just say that Jen's doing these things with her hands on the video that are so well, you might not see them, but like they're really helpful. If you go to the YouTube video, you'll see them. But like it's helpful because I think the same exact way is like, how do we get the body to be better able to manage the imbalances better able to handle the, like you said, the things that it's gonna be inevitably confronted with? How do we improve its tolerance? How do we improve its robustness? How do we do that? And that's a very different question than like, I just want this protocol to fix me, right? And, or…
Jennifer Brand (43:21.55)
Right. Or, sorry, or like, like I just want this protocol to fix me or find the trigger, which is somewhere externally. And yes, all of those things are important, but what we're doing with the protocols and with the type of work we do is figure out literally why is it happening to that person in the first place? Whereas other people in your household are not, right? So it's like, yeah.
Jennifer Fugo (43:29.306)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jennifer Fugo (43:47.26)
They're fine. Right, they're like fine. And you're like, how, why am I broken? Like everyone else I know is fine. We're living in the same house. I had one client, she was so sensitive to mold. Her kids were pretty much fine. Her husband was fine. She just like could not be around mold. And it was so frustrating because like she just can't do it. And like her system is different and it's aggravating. Either way, either way, Jen. my gosh, this was so, I would just say like, it was very insightful to hear you talk about things from the perspective of the parents, because obviously, like I said, it's a little, I feel like my perception of you is like a little whisper down the lane with like, you tell the parents, then you're telling the kids. And maybe the kid, if they're old enough, is relaying this to you, but like you know, like it's interesting to hear your experience versus like where I'm just working directly usually with the individual and like saying, hey, this is what we need to do. And we're collaborating together. Because I do think I think that's the right word. It's a collaboration. It's a partnership. As you said, there's that trust that we have to have to work together successfully. I feel like there's so many other things that we could talk about, which we can like certainly dive into another time. But I just want to thank you so much for being here. Where can everybody find you.
Jennifer Brand (45:09.982)
Well, thank you for having me. I always love being here. So you can find me, my website is https://www.jennifercarynbrand.com/. You can find me on Instagram at jennifercarynbrand. The Caryn by the way is spelled C-A-R-Y-N. You can also find me, I do work with clients privately, so I do private one on one work and then I also have a group program that does offer group coaching and support as well called Rashes Be Gone. And so you could also do www.rashesbegone.com to learn more about that as well.
Jennifer Fugo (45:47.268)
We'll put all the links in the show notes and I'll link up some of the other episodes that we've done together because I think that they're helpful for people to hear. But thank you for joining me today. I really appreciate it.
Jennifer Brand (45:57.272)
Well, thank you for having me and thank you for having this conversation. I think it was really interesting.
Jennifer Fugo (46:03.258)
Yeah, and I think it's a good opportunity for people to take a look at what, sometimes we need to hear the other side, like a different reflection and say, am I doing that? Am I thinking that way? Like, how am I showing up in my part of the partnership? And could I make some tweaks? And improvements to show it better, to be more successful, because that's ultimately the goal. The goal is to be successful. I want my clients to win. I am like the deep, I am really, really rooted in their success as I know you are. And I'm just like always cheering them on. I truly, truly believe I'm the eternal optimist. I'm like, there's hope. We can do this. We can figure it out. Even, and you know what? It might not fully be me, and that's okay too, but I believe in you. I know we can do this. We'll figure it out.
