245: Why You Need More Fiber (And How It Can Help Histamine Overload) w/ Dr. Will Bulsiewicz

Brought to you by Quell

This episode is bought to you by Quell — to help support rebuilding healthy skin from the outside-in + inside-out!

Take 10% off your next order! Use promo code QUELL10 at check out — Get started HERE!

– – –

Have you been told to eliminate fermented foods or FODMAPS out of your diet? What about histamine containing foods? You may want to listen first or read my guest's new book before eliminating these fiber-filled foods!

Or, listen on your favorite app: iTunes (Apple Podcasts) | Spotify | Stitcher | TuneIn | Subscribe on Android

Today's guest, Dr. Will Bulsiewicz (or “Dr. B”), is an award winning gastroenterologist, internationally recognized gut health expert and the New York Times-bestselling author of Fiber Fueled and The Fiber Fueled Cookbook.

He sits on the Scientific Advisory Board of ZOE, has authored more than twenty articles published in peer-reviewed scientific journals, has given more than forty presentations at national meetings, presented to Congress and the USDA, and has taught over 10,000 students how to heal and optimize their gut health.

He lives in Charleston, South Carolina with his wife and children. You’ll find him on Instagram as @theguthealthmd, on Facebook as @theguthealthmd, and at his website theplantfedgut.com.

Join us as we discuss general gut health, fiber, short chain fatty acids, and how it all relates BACK to skin health.

If you've made some changes to your diet, what's worked and what DIDN'T? Let me know in the comments!

In this episode:

  • Butyrate + its effect on gut barrier function + skin health
  • Why EVERYONE needs to be sprouting (PLUS a secret hack to getting more DAO enzyme from pea sprouts)
  • How fiber is fuel for gut microbes
  • What's the science behind FODMAPS?
  • What may be the healthiest food on the planet (according to Dr. B)


“If I walk out on the street right now and I find a random sample of 20 Americans, 19 out of 20 are deficient in fiber. And not like mildly deficient, but like severely deficient.” [5:05]

“FODMAPS are actually really good for us. So we want the FODMAPS, we just want them in the right amount. And we want to train our gut, make it stronger and make it capable of processing these foods for us.” [21:25]


Find Dr. Will Bulsiewicz online

Check out The Fiber Fueled Cookbook here or here

Follow Dr. B on Instagram| Facebook

Want to learn how to sprout at home? Watch Jen's tutorial Instagram story HERE

245: Why You Need More Fiber (And How It Can Help Histamine Overload) w/ Dr. Will Bulsiewicz FULL TRANSCRIPT

Jennifer Fugo: Thank you so much for being here, Dr. B. I really appreciate it. And I am honored to have you here at The Healthy Skin Show.

Dr. Will Bulsiewicz: Jen, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to talk about the gut, gut health, gut skin. There's a lot of great topics that we could take on today.

Jennifer: There are, that's for sure. You have a really amazing book that you wrote, when did the first book come out?

Dr. B: So Fiber Fueled was my first book, it was a passion project. I wrote it at 5:00 in the morning while working as a doctor and taking a call every third night. And it came out in May of 2020. And it was a New York Times bestseller. I didn't know what was going to happen. Could have sold a 100 copies, with 90 of them being my mom. But here we are, and we've sold 200,000 copies. It's been crazy.

Jennifer: Oh, my gosh. And it's been inspiring for a lot of people. No matter where they are, I think, on the dietary spectrum. With the idea, which I can appreciate and very much resonates with me of just adding in as you can more plant foods, which I think can benefit a lot of people. And you have this new cookbook coming out, we're going to talk about that. But I was sharing with you ahead of time that one thing that I found so refreshing about this book, and why I wanted to have you here.

Jennifer: So everybody listening, I actually think that the information in the book, as a clinical nutritionist, was so incredibly interesting. It wasn't just focused on here's a way to demonize certain foods and scare you into not eating certain things. If anything, it was packed full of really tasty morsels of information that we're going to out today. That I was like, whoa, we can talk about short-chain fatty acids. You went into all of these topics that oftentimes are ignored, especially in cookbooks. I really commend you for that. You did a great job. And it was interesting for me to read, and this is what I do.

Dr. B: I would hope so. I mean, I would hope so. I mean, I think that at the end of the day, when science is about something that can transform our health and create actionable tips that we can take and implement in our own life that are actually doable and sustainable, something that we could just well work into a healthy habit. When we have stuff like that, science is sexy. How could it not be?

Jennifer: It is.

Dr. B: Right?

Jennifer: I know.

Dr. B: And that's part of what I'm trying to celebrate it's.

Jennifer: Yeah. And it informs you of choices that may be more helpful for you based on whatever it is that you have going on, which I think is so great. Because it's like, we're not necessarily like throwing a dart in the dark and taking a guest to see if something's going to work. Instead, we're saying, “Okay, there's the actual research to show that this may be beneficial and let me test it out on myself and see how I do,” which I really, really love. So I wanted to start off this conversation about, because your whole thing is kind of based around fiber and this concept of adding in fiber and increasing fiber, so let's talk first about why fiber in general is important. And we're not talking by the way, and you mentioned this in your book, Dr. B about like grandma's orange fiber drink that all of us are like totally grossed out. I don't know if that's an age specific thing, maybe [inaudible 00:04:26].

Dr. B: You may be dating ourselves on this. Yes.

Jennifer: Yeah. Maybe dating ourselves but I remember my grandmother.

Dr. B: Stirring that drink so she can have that bowel movement.

Jennifer: Yeah, not so good. So what is the deal with fiber and why would you say maybe a few of the top reasons why you fiber to be so important, especially as background of being a gastroenterologist?

Dr. B: All right. So as a frame of context as we move into this conversation, I just want to set the stage by saying that fiber is probably our most severe nutritional deficiency, which is part of the reason why I've made it a centerpiece of this conversation that I've want to have with the American public, the Western world. If I walk out on the street right now and I find a random sample of 20 Americans, 19 out of 20 are deficient in fiber. And not like mildly deficient, but like severely deficient. The recommended amount for a man is 38 grams of fiber. The average man is getting like 18 grams.

Jennifer: Wow.

Dr. B: That's less than half of the recommended amount. Now women aren't doing that much better. The recommended amount for a woman is 25 grams. And the average woman's getting like 16 grams. So it's still pretty far away.

Dr. B: And so here's this deficiency. And if I'm going to answer your question, what's special about fiber? I'm going to cut straight to the chase and say short-chain fatty acids. But let me fill in the gaps here. Fiber doesn't just go in the mouth and pass through and come out the other end. That's the story we've been told and it's partially true, but it's not the exciting part. The exciting part is that we as humans as sort of like powerful and egotistical about ourselves as we are. We're like the apex predators in the world. As much as we think we're great, we actually wack the enzymes to process and digest fiber.

Dr. B: But a single cellular bacteria that we can't even see with naked eye could have hundreds of enzymes to break down and process fiber. And when you take our gut microbiome, which is the community that lives inside of our colon, our large intestine, there are 38 trillion of these types of microbes. And they have this massive functional ability among this pool, working together as a team, to break down and process fiber for us. Because we lack the enzymes, fiber passes through our small intestine, which is 15 to 20 feet long and it arrives in the colon, intact, unchanged from the way that it was when it went in your mouth. And that's where the microbes get into a feeding frenzy and they consume it and they break it down. This becomes their food, which is another way of saying fiber is a prebiotic, P-R-E. Fiber is a prebiotic, and you are enriching them. They grow strong as a result of it. They become more capable of doing their job.

Dr. B: And I'm sure your listeners have heard others talk about the gut microbiome before, but just in case, their job is to support human health, which includes your digestion, your immune system, your metabolism, your hormones, your mood, your brain health, and they even have the capacity to manipulate your genetic code, which is kind of insane if you think about it.

Jennifer: Wow.

Dr. B: Yeah, it's true. We could talk about celiac disease because obviously there's dermatologic implications with celiac disease too. So nonetheless, fiber becomes their food. They grow stronger, they become more capable of doing their job. And what they do is they turn around and they reward you in spades. You are getting way more back from them than you have given to them. And that is that big turn, the fiber, it stops being fiber and it becomes short-chain fatty acids, butyrate, acetate, propionate.

Dr. B: Now these short-chain fatty acids, they have healing effects throughout the entire body. It is believed that they have healing effects in the skin. That's one of the locations. We know that they have healing effects in the brain. They affect our immune system, help to shape it. They affect our metabolism. Right there in our colon, they help to repair and reverse leaky gut. I've been studying medicine for 20 years. These are the most healing, most anti-inflammatory compounds I have ever come across. And the problem is that 19 out of 20 people are not eating fiber. And for us to get these healing anti-inflammatory compounds, we have to actually consume it.

Dr. B: So recognizing that we have this massive fiber deficiency in our society and recognizing that the most healing thing I've ever come across comes from fiber, I say to myself, why is this not on the news on a nightly basis? And we can all create our conspiracy theories or whatever you want to call them about why that might be, maybe the journalists are just not really good at identifying these issues. But you know what, guess what? Neither are the doctors. The doctors aren't talking about it either. So it's time for us to start talking about this.

Jennifer: Can I just ask just, you have this background as a doctor, my dad was a doctor and he had shared with me before he retired and then subsequently passed away that he felt like there was a lot of things that medicine does great. We can manage diseases to some degree, but it seems like it takes forever to move things forward. It takes a long time for this … like this is in the sense almost a novel idea of fiber as being a deficiency. I mean, to be honest with you, even as a clinical nutritionist, this is the first time I've ever even heard someone say we have a fiber deficiency. And you know what, I talk a lot about we don't eat enough protein and getting enough amino acids. But this is another really valuable perspective on why increasing fiber would be beneficial because it is a deficiency. And I think it's important for people to realize we can't make, like your body can't make those short-chain fatty acids if you don't consume the fiber. It's a necessity. Right? [crosstalk 00:10:45].

Dr. B: Right. It's trying to cook without ingredients. You need the ingredients in order to cook a meal.

Jennifer: Exactly. And I do want to just say too, there is research that I've seen where we're looking at the benefits, even for the skin. And I think to some degree, it's not entirely clear. And we've talked about this a little bit on The Healthy Skin Show before how butyrate, for example, may be almost like a signaling module that starts in the gut and may ultimately end up having some impacts on even skin barrier function as well.

Dr. B: Well, we know it repairs the gut barrier for sure. All right. The gut barrier has these tight junction proteins that keep the cells together. And when we get leaky gut that's because those tight junction proteins have broken down. And then we actually know that butyrate is the molecule that actually repairs them and restores them so that you can store gut barrier function. We also know, Jen, that there are people who have brain fog and their doctor rolls their eyes. Like, “Oh, brain fog. That doesn't even exist. What are you talking about?” Of course it exists. You're experiencing it. You're not making stuff up. You don't want to be unwell. And what is brain fog? Brain fog is leaky brain. We have the same tight junction proteins in our brain. And we our blood brain barrier has a very similar anatomical arrangement to the gut barrier. And guess what? Butyrate repairs those tight junction proteins.

Jennifer: Wow.

Dr. B: Yeah. So it would stand to reason that butyrate can have these healing anti-inflammatory effects. So this may be part of the story that connects the gut to the skin is butyrate having its effect on barrier function. And the other thing being that we know that skin disorders, many of, come from an inflammatory origin and we know that butyrate is actually quite powerful at helping to regulate and balance our immune system.

Jennifer: And you mentioned in the book, there are certain types of bacteria in the GI tract that produce butyrate. Because somebody might be hearing this and going, “Oh, well I heard or saw a supplement butyrate.” And while that may be helpful for some individuals and sometimes I do use that in clinical practice, I think that we should realize that we want our body to do what it's supposed to do. And part of our body, in a sense, is this intricate relationship with these bacteria that live in it. So what type of bacteria would be butyrate producers, so to speak? And do you think it's worthwhile to supplement with butyrate or would your preference be to try to encourage your microbiome to produce the butyrate on its own?

Dr. B: Well, I mean, so here's what I would say. First of all, I do believe that supplements have value. And so I am not here to categorically dismiss supplements. I think pretty much everyone takes them. I love it when people like dis supplements and then you discover that they're taking multiple supplements themselves. Come on. But let's start also with an honest assessment of this, which is that humans have existed for about 3 million years, so it's 3 million years of evolution. And I can assure you that during those 3 million years, there was never a single moment in human history that did not involve these microbes. This is a relationship that was galvanized through co-evolution. This is why we lean on so much because we clearly through evolutionary processes grew to trust them. We discovered that they were more capable at doing certain things for us than we were capable of doing it ourselves.

Dr. B: Butyrate supplements did not exist until the last couple of years. So we really don't know whether or not the effect can be reproduced of what these 3 million years of co-evolution basically have gifted us. Which is that when you consume dietary fiber, you support a healthy gut microbiome and those gut microbes will then turn around and produce the short-chain fatty acids. We just simply don't know if taking a butyrate supplement is a shortcut that allows us to bypass that process and achieve similar results.

Dr. B: I do think that there are people who have complex digestive disorders and they need something to help them to get to a better place. And it is not intended to be a replacement for dietary fiber, but in some cases does allow them to achieve a healing effect that their body is not quite capable of doing on its own yet and get to a place where then they no longer actually need the butyrate supplement. But in the beginning, there may be a place for. So I do think that there's a place for it, unfortunately, we haven't really done good studies to say. I haven't seen any human trials with it to say that it actually works. So at the moment, it's a bit of an assumption to say that it does.

Jennifer: But in terms of the bacteria that would be producing it? Because my preference is always could we get your body, and when I say body I'm going to include the gut microbiome, could we get the body to actually do what it's supposed to do? And that's my preference. I know some people are like, “Well, let's just take a supplement.” Like you said, it's not ideal. And that is a good point. There's some things that's case by case. It does matter. But when we're looking for butyrate producers, what type of bacteria, like people are doing more stool tests this these days. So people are spending money on stool tests that frankly I've talked about they shouldn't be buying because it's a waste of money, some that can be helpful. But is it a lot of bacteria that you're familiar with? I think a lot of people realize they like crazy names?

Dr. B: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There's many of them.

Jennifer: [crosstalk 00:16:39].

Dr. B: Well, part of it that's kind of interesting is that the gut, we are evolving in our understanding because this is such a complex thing that we frankly discovered around 2006. And we didn't have the tools prior to 2006, the laboratory tools that we needed to actually study the gut microbiome, which is why it was largely ignored. And then suddenly we discovered it and we opened our eyes and we go, “Oh my gosh, we just discovered a new organ.” Right? And this organ is completely entwined with all these critical elements of human health and it's not even human and it's not even a part of our body. It's just these foreign microbes that are living with us, but they're symbiotic and they're trying to help us. They're there to help.

Dr. B: And one of the things that's interesting about the microbiome is in the very beginning, it was about identifying specific microbes. This microbe does this, that microbe does that. But then as we've evolved, we've come to a different place where now it's about what the functional ability of your gut microbiome? Because there's redundancy. Different microbes can repeat and do the same thing that another microbe can. But at the end of the day, is your microbiome capable of doing the job that we're asking it to do? So some of the examples of microbes like Roseburia, Roseburia is one that you'll see all over the place. Fecal bacteria [inaudible 00:18:04], multiple species of Bifidobacteria, multiple species of [inaudible 00:18:10].

Dr. B: So there are a whole bunch. I mean, I don't even know how many there are in terms of species that can produce butyrate. It's at least dozens. But the point though is that if you're not feeding those species fiber, then they're starving. And if they're starving, then they're not really well represented in your microbiom and they're also not capable of doing their job. I mean, I'm not very good at my job when I'm starving.

Jennifer: Well, you bring up a good point because I feel like clients will come to me and say, “Oh, well I have heard that I shouldn't,” … So a weird conversation that I have with some people is when we look at stool testing, I'm like, “So there's a lot of depletion. Your diet is really limited I know, but let's increase FODMAPS. So those fermentable starches that are found in a lot of different foods like asparagus and avocado and figs and berries and all sorts of stuff.” And they're like, “What? I heard the FODMAPS are bad for you.” And I'm like, “Excuse me.” I feel like FODMAPS have gotten a really bad rap. So what's your take on FODMAPS [inaudible 00:19:22].

Dr. B: It's actually not even a controversial topic. I mean, the science is actually completely clear on this. The problem is that unfortunately, if a person doesn't really have a complete understanding or the ability to educate with a complete understanding on the topic, they paint with very broad strokes that are not actually accurate. FODMAPS when you look at them, so FODMAPS are carbohydrates, could be single sugar, could be chains of sugars put together. Lactose is the FODMAP that many people know, you find that in dairy product. But you also find fructose in fruit. You'll find frutans, which are almost like fiber, in garlic, onions, wheat. You'll find galctans in legumes. And so these FODMAPS, when our gut is struggling to process and digest, our gut can struggle with these foods and it can cause as discomfort or gas and bloating, things like this. Makes it sound like they're bad, but actually if you go down the line, almost all the FODMAPS are prebiotic, meaning they are food for the gut microbiome.

Dr. B: And this is the reason why when people do a low FODMAP diet … The low FODMAP diet originates out of Monash University in Australia and they have never meant this to be a restrictive diet, ever. It was never meant to be and they never taught it that way. It's the misinterpretation that takes place on the internet in echo chambers. And if you actually look at the way that the FODMAP diet is meant to be done, it's about taking one step backwards so that you can take 10 steps forwards. You do a temporary restriction so that you can understand whether or not you have an intolerance of FODMAPs. And once you identify that you have an intolerance, it's not about eliminating the food, because that actually harms the gut. Instead, it's about building up tolerance and restoring function and making the gut more capable of processing and digesting FODMAPs because they're actually really good for us. FODMAPS are actually really good for us. So we want the FODMAPS, we just want them in the right amount. And we want to train our gut, make it stronger and make it capable of processing these foods for us.

Jennifer: So yes, everyone, if you're struggling with FODMPS, now you can reintroduce them. I have seen it happen with clients. I'm sure Dr. B has seen that in patients and his book actually talks a lot about how you can kind of do that. He's got a whole process in there. But you can. So if you have had this mindset that FODMAPS are bad, which unfortunately in the skin rash world, there's so many different diets that eliminate so many different things that food fear is a really serious problem. And it happens in gut issues, auto immunity, and we see it in many different worlds. I just know in skin, it's really tricky because people have eliminated so much in this effort to try to eliminate a trigger. They think food is like the last tool that they possibly could utilize.

Jennifer: And this is where this kind of conversation is happening because we need to make sure to attend to this garden inside of us. You have to, and this is part of that process. So I wanted to talk a little bit about histamine intolerance because I love that you actually not only mentioned this in the book, but it's a really intelligent conversation that is, A, interesting to me at a clinical level. But also I think it would be very relatable and understandable to somebody who doesn't have the level of knowledge and clinical experience that I have and it does happen. I love that you were just like, “Okay, chocolate is fermented,” which is true. That's one of the reasons it's a high histamine food. Alcohol's a problem, but fermented foods are a problem. You really laid it out and you were brutally about here's the foods that are going to be problematic and then went into this whole discussion on DAO, Diamine oxidase, which is a really important enzyme within the GI tract.

Jennifer: So I wanted to ask you some questions about that because I think it might be interesting for people to hear from your perspective, being a gastroenterologist, this of where DAO comes into the picture? Because we have a lot of people that are struggling with histamine intolerance and I kind of describe it more as histamine overload. We've got people who are struggling with chronic hives, who have a more histamine picture and are struggling with eczema. So what's the deal with DAO and how does that relate to fiber?

Dr. B: All right. So-

Jennifer: It's a big question.

Dr. B: Yeah.

Jennifer: A lot to unpack.

Dr. B: Yeah. Oh, well let's paint a picture here. All right. So histamine intolerance is when your body is out of balance and there's an excess of histamine relative to your body's ability to break down the histamine. And the principle enzyme that does the breaking down of the histamine is DAO. And I would paint a picture almost like, let's go Game of Thrones style here, and pretend we have this medieval castle. All right. And you're up in the white ivory tower, right? And we want to keep you safe. And so outside the castle, there's a castle wall and there is an army that is protecting you. That's DAO. And then here comes the invading barbarians, which is the histamine, right? And they're trying to come in and overrun the castle.

Dr. B: So DAO is the enzyme that breaks things down. It neutralizes the invading army with it, which is the histamine. But also your gut barrier is the castle wall. Your gut barrier, when intact, is part of your against histamine intolerance. And people who have histamine intolerance, I would argue probably the main reason why they're manifesting this is not just the absence of DAO, but instead it is the injury that has taken place to the gut barrier, which leaves them vulnerable. Because you're so supposed to have this protective mechanism and it's no longer in place.

Dr. B: So what can we do? Well, we basically have three choices because we actually have command over this entire battlefield. We can actually reduce the barbarians that are invading. We have the ability to actually take them off the battlefield because we choose how much histamine is in our diet. Now there will always be histamine in our diet. There's no such thing as a zero histamine diet, all foods have histamine. But through smart, sensible choices, we have the ability to basically affect that and we could potentially reduce that. At the same time, we have the ability to basically pump up our DAO levels so we can reinforce the army that's protecting our castle. One of the coolest ways to do this is through sprouting.

Jennifer: This is how we get sprouts. We talked about this beforehand. Let's do it. I was going to ask you this, but I'm so glad you [inaudible 00:26:23]. Okay, let's do it.

Dr. B: So sprouting to me is like, if you're not sprouting, you need to be because it is easy to do. It is wildly inexpensive. It is the most nutritious food. I mean literally, you are growing a garden on your kitchen counter and you are eating it as fresh as you could possibly eat a food right out of the garden, but it does not require any soil. It is not dirty. You can purchase organic. I'm talking about by the way, seeds and legumes that we're going to sprout. So you can purchase organic. And because you're buying it in bulk, it's actually really inexpensive. So imagine buying like 10 pounds of legumes, right and you're going to sprout these guys. And 10 pounds of legumes might run you $25 bucks. Right? And that 10 pounds of legumes is going to last you months.

Dr. B: Now here's what's cool about sprouting. Sprouting can actually, and at baseline, it enhances the nutritional value of the food. It cranks up the fiber, it cranks up the protein, it reduces anti nutrient content. It increases vitamins. I think the minerals actually increase, which I don't fully understand how that even happens, but they do. And then there are the medicinal properties to sprouts. And here's an example of where you will find medicinal properties. DAO, this enzyme that helps us to break down histamine in our own body actually exists as a part of legumes sprouts. So when you sprout a legumes, any legumes, you are creating DAO. And our research indicates, they actually have studies they're cited in my book, our research indicates that peas are the ones that produce the most DAO. And here's what's interesting, it's not just like sprouting peas, you actually want to stress the peas out, like stress them out.

Jennifer: Okay.

Dr. B: Because when you challenge them and you sprout them in the dark, you bring out the best of them.

Jennifer: So what does that mean? So like put them in the cupboard inside?

Dr. B: And you could put them in the cupboard. You could take the sprouting jar that you have and wrap it in aluminum foil so that it stays dark. All right? But basically by making the peas sprout it in the dark, you are actually cranking up the DAO production. They actually become even more active. Now why that is, what that means in terms of nature signals, I don't really understand. I'll just be honest. But it's really cool to imagine you're sitting down to have a meal, you have histamine intolerance, and you could actually reduce the likelihood of having a flare of your histamine intolerance by quite simply eating pea sprouts.

Jennifer: And I know people are going to ask, is there a certain amount that you would recommend per meal? Because there are DAO supplements. I found they're honestly I hit or miss, most of the time don't really help that much. But the pea sprout thing was something that popped up that we found, but we couldn't find a whole lot of information about it. So this is really helpful.

Dr. B: Yeah. So I think what you do is you do a self-guided assessment of the value of these pea sprouts, where you basically test it. Not necessary with a super high histamine meal, but you start with a low histamine meal and you add the pea sprouts, and then you start to challenge yourself with more and more histamine in your food while simultaneously maintaining the pea sprouts and seeing where it takes you. And this is effectively, you're going to adjust the dose in terms of what you need based upon your ability to minimize your symptoms. So that's the way that I would approach that.

Jennifer: Okay. And I will share. So I wish now I had my jar of sprouts. Literally, it's like ready to go into the fridge. Everyone, it is so easy. I was so paranoid and afraid to do it before. I don't know why. It is so much cheaper. They last, like I don't know, two weeks, as opposed to three days before getting slimy. They are fresher. I give some to my mom. It is so easy to do. You can do this. I'll try and see if I can link to one of my tutorials, sprout. Just start doing it. And it's fun for kids. It takes me four or five day is on the countertop and then I've got a whole jar. So please, please consider doing this. It's an awesome thing. And I love that you know about this and you're talking about this. It is so great.

Dr. B: In the Fiber Fueled Cookbook, we have an entire chapter about sprouts and it's literally just to teach people how to do it.

Jennifer: Great.

Dr. B: And it's cool. You take a half of a cup of lentil sprouts, half a cup of lentils, not the lentils you're buying at your store. You get special sprouting lentils, but a half a cup in three days turns into four cups of sprouting lentils. I mean, it's insane.

Jennifer: Wow.

Dr. B: And then if you like flavor, you need to try onions sprouts.

Jennifer: Onions sprouts?

Dr. B: Oh my gosh. One of the coolest tasting foods and you've never tasted it before. But when you sprout onions, now it takes a while, it takes literally about 10 days to sprout onions. So it's a more heavy investment of time just in terms of maintaining that consistency of the sprouting because it's twice a day you got to do this. But when you get to that finish line, once you've had onions sprouts, you're going to start putting them in everything, on everything. It becomes a garnish for every … you figure out a way to get onion sprouts in because they're just a total game changer.

Jennifer: And remember everyone, you don't [inaudible 00:32:19]. You don't cook sprouts, you eat them raw.

Dr. B: Yeah. Eat them raw. Well, because part of what you're getting are these enzymes, right? So this DAO is there because it's an enzyme, that's a part of this germination process that's taken place in the plant. So we're basically catching the plant in this like magical early moment where nature is basically trying to give it everything it can to grow and to thrive and we get to consume it. It's fair game.

Jennifer: Yeah. I love that. So I did want to mention to you in your cookbook, you have this wonderful page and I don't know what page it's going to end up being on in the book, but in my copy you had listed, which thank you for doing this because I have cited other websites, but there are medications that can be associated with this issue with DAO. Do you find that it's that certain medications, I mean, some of these are pretty common medications, ibuprofen. I'm just looking, morphine, naproxin, there are certain nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs or NSAIDs. What I have read is that they seem to deplete or block the production of DAO. Is that what your research says? And not to scare anyone, but just an FYI. Are there meds out there that can have an impact on this?

Dr. B: Well, I think look at the end of the day, first of all, I think that the best form of healthcare is where rather than being all Western healthcare or all alternative, we instead are integrating the best of both worlds where we're acknowledging the importance of diet and lifestyle and these other elements that can be done as a preventative mechanism. And then simultaneously, when you need medication, you need medication and sometimes people need medication. Right? So when you need the medication, you need the medication, but that doesn't stop us from asking the question, do I need this medication? And it's actually quite shocking how often you can approach at your doctor and ask that question and they don't really know whether you do or you don't. And if that's the case, then it makes you really wonder whether you do, because maybe you should come off of it.

Dr. B: So I think creating awareness and empowerment around this idea where I don't want people struggling with histamine intolerance and not realizing that maybe there's something that could have done with the help of their healthcare provider to make an adjustment in terms of what medications they're taking to reduce the likelihood of having these issues.

Jennifer: Yeah. I appreciate that answer very much, because I think everybody's journey is different. But I think like you said, when we start asking, why? Is this necessary? And why am I taking, or why do I feel like I need, for example, ibuprofen all the time? And we could go into the whole thing of what NSAIDs do to the GI track and could potentially cause ulcers and all sorts of other things. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's a really valid question to ask and I love that. This is just a great conversation.

Jennifer: Even though I know everyone, this isn't like skin specific, it is related. And I know that for those of you who've listened, I mean, we're 200 some episodes in at this point, you know how important gut health is. And that's why I really wanted to have this conversation to help invite you all into this space where you could become inspired to begin integrating in even new veggies at the grocery store. And I think this is a great resource to help you do that because food should be fun. And if you're not sprouting, maybe this is the call to action to do that. That could be like your one next step that you take. But I think this is a great book for everybody to check out. And no matter where you are, it doesn't matter whether you are more on the plant based diet or you eat a very varied diet and you're just looking to integrate more plants into your diet or maybe you're just starting. This is awesome.

Jennifer: So thank you so much, Dr. B for being here. I guess everybody can get your book at most stores, right? It's available pretty much everywhere.

Dr. B: So yes, my book is going to be available everywhere. I mean you can of course go through the traditional avenues like Amazon or whatever it may be. My one ask or challenge to the listeners, if you feel inspired and motivated to check out my book is that we're emerging from this pandemic and imagine what this has been like for your local bookstore. They're lucky if they're still open. And most likely the owners are your neighbors, right? This is someone that lives in your community, not someone who's mega rich through the wires of the internet. I'm grateful to anyone who orders my book no matter how you do. But if it's my choice, I would really encourage you to take the time to go to that local book shop, grab the book there. And that way you're handing that money over to your neighbor and thanking them for keeping their doors open despite the pandemic, because it's been crazy time.

Jennifer: Yeah, I can very much appreciate that. So you've got the Fiber Fueled Book. We've now got the Fiber Fueled Cookbook. That's what we've been talking about today. And then if you want to go check out what Dr. B is doing and stay in touch with him, he's got the plantfedgut.com and he's got a really great Instagram as well. I'm going to link to everything in the show notes so it's really easy for you to find. But thank you so much Dr. B for being here. I really, really appreciate it. [inaudible 00:37:48]. What do you want to share?

Dr. B: Well, I just wanted to reinforce and say that in my book, literally the first words if you open up the book to the very first page, it says with humility I have discovered that no two of us are exactly the same. So I just really want to encourage everyone that you're on your own personal journey. And the way that I see this book is to me, this is not meant to really truly be a cookbook, although it is. It's actually really, truly meant to be a tool that you can apply to your own life in whatever way you feel is best for you. You're on your own journey. I am just trying to create a resource that's there to support you on that journey. So no matter who you are, if you have food intolerances, I honestly think this book is probably like gold standard book for food intolerances. It has two recipe based protocols. One of them is low histamine. One of them is low FODMAP to teach you about these things. I give you the entire methodology. I teach you how to sprout. I teach you how to ferment.

Dr. B: Basically I'm putting the tools on the table and I want you to apply them to your own life and whatever you feel works best for you. And my dream is that one day we're all on this journey and then we emerge from the forest into the same place together. And we're just all celebrating and we're having fun because we found great health and it happens through this journey through gut health and that food brings us great joy. That's ultimately where I want everyone to be.

Jennifer: Yay. I love those parting thoughts. Thank you so much. And I hope that you back sometime. I feel we have much, much, we could talk about.

Dr. B: Me too. We're just getting started.

Jennifer: Yeah. Absolutely. I wish you the best of luck with the book. I'm excited to dive into its when it finally comes out. I can't to get a copy. And I'm going to check out sprout. You're encouraging me now and inspiring me to dive more into sprouts. Now maybe I can start fermenting.

Dr. B: Okay.

Jennifer: But I'll follow your lead.

Dr. B: All right, real quick. Real quick. Brain shots, fermentation. New study came out out of Stanford University. Some of my friends actually, professors Christopher Gardner and Justin Sonenberg, less than a year ago and they found that when they increased fermented food consumption, in 10 weeks, people had a significant increase in the diversity of their gut microbiome, which basically means a healthier gut, and reduced measures of inflammation. This is directly applicable to the listeners of this audience.

Jennifer: Yes.

Dr. B: Or to the listeners of this show. And then the other thing that I wanted to add real quick is that when it comes to sprouting, we talked about lentil sprouts, we talked about pea sprouts. Broccoli sprouts might be the healthiest food on the entire planet. And then we talked about the onions sprouts. Jen, if you haven't tried them, that might be the new future for you.

Jennifer: I have to do this now.

Dr. B: They're so good.

Jennifer: Thank you so much. You're a wealth of knowledge. Like I said, we'll have to figure out another time to have you back and give more into this. I think will people love it and I'm excited for your book. So Congratulations, and we'll have you back sometime.

Dr. B: Amazing. Thank you, everyone. Thanks for hanging with us today.

“If I walk out on the street right now and I find a random sample of 20 Americans, 19 out of 20 are deficient in fiber. And not like mildly deficient, but like severely deficient.”